Julio Cesar Chavez vs Pipino Cuevas.

:happy

 

I am quite pleased that, so far at least, we have all been able to disagree without becoming disagreable.

Chavez is the more modern fighter and Cuevas the older. Time seems to dim the accomplishments of some and add luster to others, I sure don't know why that is but I'm not the only one who rates Pipino highly despite his journeyman like record...

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=5709&more=1

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Pipino_Cuevas

http://www.hbo.com/boxing/features/greatest/welterweight_punchers.html

Ring Magazine's 100 greatest P4P punchers
31. Pipino Cuevas

It is my hope we are giving both of these great fighters the respect I believe they both have earned...

I have said I like Chavez by close decision - but I am not very confident in that. I hope I'm not underestimating Cuevas and I'll freely admit if Cuevas hits cleanly with that hook it could be a very different fight indeed.

I am enjoying this thread and have to say that this is a fight I would pay to see when we get the time machine working!

 

I think Chavez would win a decision, Cuevas hit hard but Chavez's chin is legandary I see him outworking and outlanding Cuevas to a UD.

 

This is right.

 

For you to clap at Mantequilla's post just goes to show your hatred bias against Chavez, and really throws all your arguments in this thread out the window!:deal

 

I would liken the scenario of this fight to go much like the Holyfield-Tyson fights.

Power alone does'nt win fights. For most, if you're in the classic section posting on a topic like this, you guys should more than know this.

Mike Tyson cracked much harder than did Evander Holyfield. In fact, the power disparity imo was much wider with Holyfield-Tyson than it would have been for Chavez-Cuevas.

Holyfield was able to neutralize Tyson by giving him subtle movements, coming inside at angles, and getting out and away with angles.
You dont step out in a straight line when you're up against a big puncher.....and these are things that Chavez knew and always did.

When you look at Chavez' fight with Rosario, he's never locking heads with Rosario straight up. You could always see that Chavez was a half step to a step to Rosario's side......and Rosario was always looking to straighten up and meet Chavez straight on to lock horns....but Chavez never gave him that chance.

I dont believe Cuevas even had a clue about the artistery of angling in and turning an opponent.....Chavez was really to put it mildly a master at it, and it was the reason that he was able to render much stronger and harder punching opponents than he was, helpless.

Again, Chavez much greater nuances in an infighting game with Pipino are being ignored.
It's the reason that Duran was able to dispose of Cuevas so easily.
Cuevas was really just clueless in there vs Duran, and nothing would be much different with Chavez, except that it would take Chavez just a little longer to put a halt to a fight that imo would be a complete mismatch.

Again, a one dimensional slugger at 147 lbs or below is not going to even come close to beating a great fighter like JC Chavez, of that in my mind I am absolutely sure of!

 

Cuevas would come foward in the early rounds, with Chavez staying at mid to long distance, jabbing and shooting his patented straight right over a missing Pipino hook.

Chavez would more than likely circle to Pipino's right away from his hook, but at the moment that Pipino would unleach and miss with the hook, Chavez would counter it with a straight right, and follow it up with a hook downstairs of his own.

Not a whole lot of thunder in the early rounds....but a fighter as good as Chavez is so keen at observing and finding weak spots that he'd have Pipino figured out within a few rounds......
.....and really, with a fighter like Pipino, its easy pickings for a fighter like Chavez. There is'nt much adjustments for a fighter like Chavez to make with the type of skill level that Pipino brings to the table.
.....the same combinations that would land early for Chavez, would just be perfected and just ooze out with more frequency, potency, and regularity as the fight moved on.


Scientist already mentioned Chavez fight with Lockridge as a good barometer of his skillset fighting with an injured hand.
I get a strong feeling around these parts that alot of you imagine Chavez to be the same type fighter that Pipino Cuevas was.
I could see someone who would have that mindset coming to the conclusion that Cuevas would beat Chavez.
......but that is so far out there from the truth.

I dont see Pipino making many if any adjustments throughout the fight, Chavez would'nt have too, but could make them at the drop of a hat.

Chavez turns it up late on a frustrated and fatigueing Cuevas and stops him late!


Btw, for those that dont know, but Chavez and Cuevas are very good friends.....
....Cuevas was falsely accused of something and was in put in jail for a few weeks......
During Chavez preparation for Greg Haugen at Azteca Stadium, he found the time to go visit his friend Cuevas in jail, and petitioned and made a call to the president of Mexico on behalf of his friend Pipino Cuevas.
Does'nt have to do anything with this thread, but I thought it was an interesting tidbit to add to the thread.

 

What a terrible shame i'm actually a fine fan of Chavez. I commonly name him one of the two greatest 140's head to head and think he'd beat Pryor. I think he was a tremendous 135 and picked him steadfastly over Buchanan when most others didn't. Even tho he hammered my fave lightweight i can still appreciate the guy. I think he's a fantastic fighter with only Whitaker in his era able to handle him at his best, IMO.

I am clapping Mantequilla's post because i have been outnumbered, in a friendly way lol.

Now, aren't you the guy that scores Whitaker - Chavez a draw or even for Chavez? If so it is i that could never take you seriously in any discussion about Chavez. I don't think Chavez's family even scored that one for him.

 

If that is the case, then my apologies John Thomas, but I just found it a little classless to support a poster that would insinuate that a prime or near prime Chavez would quit vs Pipino Cuevas.
It might have been said tongue and cheek, but I still looked upon it as classless.

If you did'nt mean it in that form as you said, then like I said, my apologies friend!

 

Apology sincerely accepted, my support to the post was nothing to do with the quitting aspect and i say that honestly of course. I was just happy to have someone picking the same fighter as i when i'd been having some friendly banter vs two excellent posters going the other way. I was supporting the siding, not the prediction.

Matequilla tho is entitled to his opinion, tho some might find it harsh or brutal. He's an excellent poster and i think we all can get a bit hard hitting when it comes to certain fighters or events.

At the end of the day you, SS, Vock and co. are taking Chavez's better skills and resume over Pipino's size and power while i go the other way. I will readily admit i could easily be wrong but it's just the way i see it. We've both given reasonable merits to both sides of the coin i think.

Keep well mate.

 

Yeah i can't see Chavez actually wearing down Cuevas like he did other good fighters at lesser weights. His vaunted body attack will have a bit less effect and Cuevas has a top chin i reckon.

Fair post. Shields was light early career but quickly grew in weight to the point where i think he was a lot closer to being a natural welter than Julio. Tho he weighed 142 vs Cuevas i will contend that it was a solid as **** 142 where Julio will very very definitely be carrying substancial artificial packing. You might well be right in your prediction, i think this fight is a fine line to pick.

i've probably put myself across a bit wrong here. I've conjured up the image of a blowout with my Hearns - Duran comments but it wouldn't be like this. Chavez had more skill and would certainly be competitive as long as it went. The point i poorly got across, or tried to, is that i see Cuevas shocking people by actually taking Chavez out when his chin is regarded as pure granite.

You're doing great mate, look forward to more banter with you.

 

good Chavez by decision. Even though this wasnt Chavez weight ,style wise i dont see a guy like Cuevas beating him. For as hard as he hit i dont see him knockingout a prime Chavez or even hitting him with regulartity. I dont think Chavez would make this a war and thats the only chance Cuevas has here. Chavez would outbox him and slug at the right times, hed have to fight disciplined and he would. Chavez by comfortable decision.

 

Chavez is too small. Pipino murders him...literally.

 

I think the posters here are putting to much emphasis on size here, bottom line Chavez is the better fighter here and style wise this outweighs Cuevas advantages. It would be different against a welters like Hearns or ODLH,Leonard who are big and Fast. But Chavez would be able to outbox Cuevas. Only fighter i can thnk of that maybe stops a prime Chavez(even at welter)would be Hearns(maybe Robinson) because of his height range speed and ferociolus power. Cuevas wouldnt have those advantages here. Cuevas Power is on par with the Hitman but he wont have the other advantages.