jumbo cummings vs ernie shavers....

Cummings could take a punch, but if Jeff Sims could take him out, then Earnie certainly could have done it. Jumbo was durable enough so that this wouldn't be a blink and you miss it type of situation. If both men are on their feet at the final bell, Shavers takes the decision. Earnie didn't hold up particularly well to punishment, but his chin wasn't as bad as is typically stereotyped either. Floyd didn't have the kind of punching power and delivery necessary to stop a heavyweight of that caliber, and Shavers had the skills to outbox him if Cummings didn't succumb to his power.

On paper, this actually looks like an entertaining match, so trash and tomato throwing should be at a minimum.

 

I think from about 1981 onward, either man could have taken it frankly. Dean has a good point, that Shavers had more than enough power to leave Floyd seeing stars, but shavers didn't exactly have the greatest chin, skill nor stamina either, and Frank Bruno had a pretty good scare against Cummings. Against a prime Shavers of the 70's, I make Earnie a huge favorite to beat Cummings.. In the early 80's however, I'd say its probably 50/50 bet.

 

:thinkYou know, I think I would have definitely bet on Earnie if that pairing had been made after Frazier-Cummings. Granted, Floyd gave Bruno a hairy moment, but I think Shavers may actually have had a slightly superior chin to Frank. The draw with Frazier was the beginning of a career ending winless streak for Cummings, while Shavers still had something left in the tank. Earnie closed out 1981 by getting off the deck to knock out Sims (who would himself knock out Cummings two fights later), opened 1982 with a rare ten round decision over unbeaten prospect Ali Haakim, and followed that with his two round blowout of Bugner.

Bugner had just turned 32, and would remain an extremely viable heavyweight for years to come, with wins over Denis (best knockout of Joe's long career), Bey, Tillis and Page still ahead of him, so I consider this an excellent win for Earnie. Shavers would later lose a decision to Tillis, but not before dropping Quick flat on his face with a single ninth round bomb, a rare display of resurgent late power from Earnie. Unlike a lot of aging heavyweights, Shavers kept his weight under control as he got older (averaging around 215), and remarkably was never again stopped by fatigue after Cobb. Although aging, Earnie seems to have compensated reasonably well with increased experience and resourcefulness.

 

A tomatoe-can pulling a draw against Joe Frazier is big deal. Who knows what could've been if Cummings managed to survive the first four rounds against Shavers? Maybe an upset. But a Cummings after 1981 would def kiss the canvass.

 

Shavers probably in similar fashion as in the Jeff Sims fight. It would have been a brawl.

 

Good points,

however when crediting Shavers with the Bugner win, we have to consider that Joe was off for two and a half years before stepping in the ring with Shavers, and wasn't looking in that great of condition either. I also think its debatable as to who had the greater chin. I can't think of one puncher ( with the exception of Jeff Simms ) who earnie survived a shot from. Floyd, on the otherhand took some pretty decent punches Bruno, Witherspoon, Snipes and a few others before either dropping a decision or being stopped late...

 

Before bringing up Bugner, I checked issboxWRECK (I know, I know, but my record books are relatively ancient) which records Joe as coming off a sixth round stoppage of Gilberto Acuna, so he wasn't completely rusty. Bugner wasn't in great shape, but a quick knockdown over him is still impressive.

This is admittedly a close call between Bruno and Shavers. (Were you under the impression I was comparing Earnie's chin to Floyd's? Cummings clearly had the better whiskers between those two.) I'm figuring that if Bruno could survive getting stunned by Jumbo, then the Shavers who recovered against Sims could do it as well.

Vastly underrated puncher Ellis had Earnie going in the corner before the referee's break created the opening Shavers needed for the best one punch knockout of his career. But as far as I'm aware of, he only got off the deck to win against Sims. To me, that's significant though, in light of your earlier suggestion that Shavers-Cummings would have been 50/50 at this stage of their careers. (Earnie also took a tremendous early barrage in the first match with Holmes, and continual punishment in going the distance. He survived more rounds with a peaking Holmes still in his 20s than any other opponent of Larry's long career.)

Again, I'm not questioning Jumbo's ability to take a shot. But where Shavers is concerned, Earnie lasted six rounds with Lyle, and seven with Mercado before getting beat down, and stood up through some hard shots in the process. In each instance, he accelerated his own exhaustion in a futile attempt to follow up an early knockdown with an attempt to finish off his opponent. He took a sustained barrage against Quarry before going down (similar to the one which felled Bruno for the count against Smith). Single shots didn't spark him the way they did Lewis, or drop him the way they did Patterson or Ingo. Accumulation was always necessary with him.

To me, the Cummings of late 1980 would have the best shot at stopping the inexperienced Shavers who Ron Stander dropped from the unbeaten ranks in 1970. But I don't think Floyd would have ever won a real life pairing when their careers would have actually intersected. Still, this isn't something I'd expect to end in a single round, and a paying audience should get an entertaining scrap out of it.

 

Christ, Sims was so hot and cold as a fighter it was sickening........... The Sims who dropped Shavers in '81 had potential.... The Sims who fought like a ***** against Tim Spoon later up around 1990 was a sorry mother.........

As for Shavers, well, a good guy with a great punch, and not much else......... Shavers was better suited for football........

Jumbo Cummings was / is a moronic idiot doing a life sentence in Joliet cuz he's a loser...

Shavers KO's Cummings in a wild / sloppy fight.............

MR.BILL

 

Shavers would probably take out Cummings in seven rounds.Cummings had that physique, and was durable, but that was all.He didn't have enough to overcome Earnie's all-world power, and would suffer for it.

 

Easy win for Shavers, assuming they both fight their best. This is because Cummings was hittable. Earnie could demolish almost anyone he could hit consistently. I can't picture Cummings surviving more than 2 to 4 rounds of punishment from Earnie. I believe this even in spite of Cummings's durability.

I don't think Cummings's would be able to get much off offensively, as he'd be forced onto the defensive the whole time.

Remember, we're talking the Shavers of the 1972-1979 period...not the later version of Shavers.

 

I think you overrate Cummings. He struck me as a big but musclebound clubfighter who just didn't have the tools to threaten genuine contenders.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RGEUQa9BVs[/ame]

 

Williams was certainly more of a fighter than Cummings. I saw Cummings lose to Renaldo Snipes on TV, I believe in 1981. I wasn't overly impressed.

Check out Cummings record on boxrec. The best fighter he ever beat was clubfighter George Mostardini, and it took Cummings 8 rounds to finish the job.

I don't put Cummings on par with the the likes of Shavers, Lyle, Bugner, Quarry...or the later set of contenders such as Witherspoon, Coetzee, Weaver, Dokes, Page, etc.

 

Correct. A lot of people don't realize that Bugner was at his best in 1973 to 1977, when he was still mobile and lightning-fast with his hands. The Bugner of the post 1982 period was respectable, but a lot slower and less effective than the mid-1970s version.