June 7th fights...impressions and context.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jun 7, 2008.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Wow. Three very surprising outcomes, I'm still reeling. :yep

    Not that Williams or Lopez were a huge stretch to win, but to win in the fashion they did I think shocked everybody.

    Quintana and Ponce were just bulldozered by young, motivated guys...and here I was confident they would be the ones scoring mid-round stoppages. :!:

    And I don't think you can say that either guy 'got old overnight' or anything like that (more on this when I get to Forrest-Mora) - they were just both overwhelmed early by youthful speed, power, and aggression and unable to respond.

    Quintana actually won the first half of round one IMO, I was beginning to write Williams off when he turned it around and finished admirably. This is the most impressive performance I've seen from Williams since Pakau, not just because it was a stoppage, but because he's reverted to using his athletic ability to his advantage by combining it with raw aggression. This is the Paul Williams people touted as the next big welterweight prospect, and I trust this run as champ will last a bit longer if he maintains his mentality. I don't know about a rubbermatch with Quintana...it'd be one hell of a long shot for him to come back and win again at his age, maybe a risk not worth the reward. I see Williams beating most challengers from outside the top ten, while all the top welters still make for interesting matchups.

    DPDL never really got a chance to get into the fight but nothing I saw told me he was shot...just bowled over by Lopez, who I already knew to be an incredible talent. I never expected him to excel in such a jump in class at this stage in his career. Needless to say, he is now a major player at 122. I'm still waiting to find out the results of Caballero-Parra, but a WBO/WBA unification match seems even more attractive now than it did with Ponce as champ. I'm still not sure I want to give him a chance against Vazquez, but on the other hand how much the trilogy took away from Vazquez is a huge, lingering question mark. SBW is pretty tantalizingly uncertain at the moment.

    Light Middleweight, in contrast, is now even more bleakly uncertain than it was before. Between the Phillips-Spinks robbery and Mora upsetting and derailing the momentum of Forrest, the possibility of anything approaching a significant blockbuster fight involving a 154 lb titlist has dwindled to a jot. Mora actually fought well enough, I thought, but against a clearly diminished Forrest (who recently lost - regardless of the official decision - to a diminished Quartey). I think it's wrong to either give Mora complete credit for the victory, or to completely take it away. It's a mix-and-match. Forrest stunk, and Mora capitalized brilliantly. His style is ideal for exploiting weakness, and he did. For him to say this was a C+ performance from him sounds like hot air until he proves otherwise on a consistent basis against world-class opposition. He is what he is, and I think what we saw tonight is what he has to offer, and is enough to beat a tired Vernon Forrest, quite possibly enough to beat an even older and slower Phillips, or a still-green James Kirkland (Mora has a good chin); and stylistically matchups with the likes of Spinks and Alcine would be very interesting (though I would expect Spinks to outclass him). This may be moot if he does return to 160, which IMO would be a monumentally stupid move. He has a decent chance of a good title run at 154 - and, and I'm shocked to find myself saying this about the cocksure Contender fighter who has rubbed so many the wrong way - I almost wish he would stay to lend the division some depth and matchup opportunities (lest we have disparate beltholders steering clear of each other and taking turns pounding on the likes of TerMeliksetian for the next few years). He does seem to want big fights, which is creditable. However, he's looking in the wrong places. While he has a decent chance of a good title run at 154, he stands about zero chance of obtaining a belt at 160. Pavlik-Mora? Abraham-Mora? Right. :yep

    Pavlik performed competently in shredding the non-factor Lockett, but not in stunningly impressive fashion as the HBO team would have you believe. The improving from fight to fight stuff is nonsense. His punching technique and footwork are the same as ever, the only difference between this and the Taylor fights is he had the luxury of moving at a very comfortable and relaxed pace. If anything, it makes the flaws in his technique stand out more. He's what he's always been - a tough, strong guy with okay fundamentals. Abraham would have stopped Lockett in half the time. :good I'm glad the HBO crew threw Arthur's name out there, but then they screwed it up by hyping up the Calzaghe megafight (which Calzaghe doesn't need and Pavlik shouldn't bother with, when there's plenty of business to attend to at 160). I want Pavlik-Abraham by 2009. Rubio in the meantime is acceptable. As long as he doesn't keep the belt hostage facing creampuff mandatories like Lockett, I'm all good with any path that leads to bringing closure to the division (which IMO will come when he fights and loses to King Arthur).
     
  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Man did those TKOs mess me up. :lol:
     
  3. El Matador

    El Matador Your Boxing Authority Full Member

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    I'm still getting over Quintana's performance.:oops:

    I'm going to have to change my avatar.:-(

    How will he bounce back after such a disappointment!:huh :patsch

    Anyway, yes, Paul Williams looked great - for reference, Quintana took hell from Cotto for four rounds until Cotto won via left-hook to the body.

    Williams is going to be a great fighter - I can feel it.

    Still didn't get to see De Leon's loss to Lopez (heard he was annihilated, I was watching Vernon Forrest disappoint).

    Vernon Forrest is probably finished as a top-tier boxer.
     
  4. aillmatic

    aillmatic Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Quintana-Williams
    I'm shocked by the outcome. I was going with Quintana by decision. I wasn't sold on the Williams hype yet, and after the first fight I thought it would be more of the same. Williams looked great, stunned him in the first round and went for the kill. The Williams that showed up tonight will give any top welterweight problems. I say no to a rubber match because of how it ended. If Williams would've won by close decision, then yes....but he bombed Quintana. Williams should look to unify against the Judah-Clottey, or Cotto-Margarito winners, and Quintana should look elsewhere to rebound.

    Lopez-Ponce De Leon
    I went with Lopez by decision. I knew he was the better boxer coming in, but I was shocked again at how quick he got rid of Ponce De Leon. You can say what you want about Ponce's technique and lack of boxing skills.... but NOBODY has dropped him the way Lopez did. Lopez looks like the real deal and I can't wait to see him again. I'd be ok with him making an optional defense before he tries to unify against Molitor, Caballero, or Vasquez. I like his chances against all three, but I wouldn't mind if he waited until early next year. Ponce might finally be forced to move up to 126. There were rumors about him fighting Linares a while back, his team didn't want to take it but that might be their best option now.

    Forrest-Mora
    MAN!,what a shocker!. I gave more NO CHANCE to win this fight, but I think it's a little bit more of what Forrest didn't do than what Mora did. Forrest made it hard on himself by not throwing the jab to set up combinations. He had success when he did it, but didn't follow up. Mora should stay at 154 and forget about 160. He matches up ok against Phillips, and Alcine... so unification could be a good option. I have a feeling the Contender promoters will hold this belt hostage and match Mora with weak opposition. He also has a mandatory in Sergio Martinez. As for Forrest, I think that's pretty much it for a good career. He looked like and old, slow fighter tonight. He seemed gassed after 6 rounds, I don't know if it was poor conditioning or age. After losing to Mora, he should really think about retirement.lol

    Pavlik-Lockett
    Did anyone else expect this to go any other way? Everyone expected Pavlik to blow out Lockett, and he did just that. If this fight lasted 12 rounds, there would've been some questions but Pavlik did what he was supposed to do. I don't know why he is wasting his time with Rubio. Is he a mandatory?? If he is then its ok, but if he's not then Pavlik needs to go straight to an Abraham fight. If not Abraham, then bring Sturm for the time being.

    Overall, good night of boxing.:good :happy :bbb
    I went 0 for 2 on the Showtime card, and 2 for 2 on the HBO card.
     
  5. prideofvbeach

    prideofvbeach Top 10 Pound-For-Pound Full Member

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    Boxrec.com is posting for some reason that Pavlik and Calzaghe will be fighting October 18 somewhere in the US. Is this for real?
     
  6. aillmatic

    aillmatic Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Don't believe everything Boxrec says. They jump the gun ALL the time.... sooo don't believe it for now until its confirmed by other sources.
     
  7. Chiko_Tech

    Chiko_Tech Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Look to the posted treard i already posted the junma vs de leon fight.
     
  8. klion22

    klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Impressions? Boxing is unpredictable.

    Just think. The fight that was supposed to go the distance in Williams/Quintana, lasted 1 round. And the fight that was supposed to be an execution not only went 12 rounds, but the guy that was supposed to get executed won the fight.
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    :nod
     
  10. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    The Williams-Quintana result is the biggest shocker of the year.

    A Williams TKO after Quintana lost stamina, even if he were to win every round prior, would not have shocked me. Williams shutting out Quintana would have been surprising, but not 'shocking'.

    A TKO 1, when Quintana has never shown chin issue's and Williams has never shown anything in the way of serious punching power is quite a surprise, a real one.
     
  11. Lampley

    Lampley Boxing Junkie banned

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    Great post.

    1) Williams has power when he sets his feet, and finally he did that. He also kept his guard higher and forced Quintana to search for a target, something that he never had to do in the first fight. Credit to Paul and his people for making the change. I'd favor Williams against everyone except Cotto, who I believe would knock him out emphatically, or Margo in the rematch. Let's see how July goes before speculating further on that!

    2) Lopez looked sensational and like a potential PfP fighter. My strong hunch is that neither Vazquez nor Marquez will ever be the same, and thus by the end of 2009 Lopez will be ready to pounce on the rest of the division.

    3) Props to Mora for a game effort, but Forrest is finished. He should retire. My only disagreement with your post is the assessment of Mora/Kirkland. Mora offers nothing offensively when pushed backward and is open to basic combos, and Kirkland specializes in those two areas. Crazy as it sounds, I actually believe Forrest poses more of a threat to Kirkland due to his right-hand punching power, as James tends to run face-first into shots. Mora just doesn't hit hard enough to make him pay for that.

    4) Completely agreed on Pavlik/Lockett. He mixed his punches together very well but also had a completely stationary and molasses-slow opponent to make him shine. Lockett was brave but wouldn't be a good fighter for ESPN's WNF, much less as a title contender on HBO. The fact that Kelly took some shots from him reinforced to me that he'll always have some defensive issues. I still like him over Abraham, though, due to his workrate and chin. Would strongly prefer that bout (assuming Abraham isn't destroyed by Miranda) over Pavlik/Calzaghe.
     
  12. Lampley

    Lampley Boxing Junkie banned

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    Agreed. I hold Williams in higher regard than you, I suspect, but a first-round demolition of a slick fighter like Quintana blew my mind.
     
  13. bigmarkd86

    bigmarkd86 Active Member Full Member

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    frank warren spoke to pavliks promoter after the blowout on saturday and there is a tv date available for the 18th(possibly the boardwalk) but its all up to joe(he looks like he wants jones jnr in november instead)as far as warren said.Calzaghe is all about the money now(before frochs last fight ITV(1 of britains largest tv channels)recored Carl froch phoneing Calzaghe and asking him for a dance,Calzaghe told him its all about the price being right.So if u ask me it looks like a shot Jones jnr next for Calzaghe next.
     
  14. albeziel

    albeziel Multi Viral C13 Full Member

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    Juanma by KO, what a great way to be on everyone's radar
     
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I think he was on most of ESB's...now the casuals know him too. :good