Junior Middleweight: A Dreary Desolate Barren Dystopic Languid Shell Of A Division.

shadz96 · Jun 9, 2016

basicall american dominated divion deep european dominated divvision weak no bias there i see

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

The Shockmaster said: ↑

if vanes were a 160 fighter hed be hailed as a tough out
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Door swings both ways on that one pal, if Vanes was at 160 you'd be calling him another tomato can. And don't even try to act like you wouldn't.

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

The Shockmaster said: ↑

nice to see you are fond of soro though

because he stopped tapia in the fight before tapia fought david Lemieux

notice how 154 guys are cleaning tapias clock the same way Lemieux is?

kinda like when a welterweight cleaned geales clock
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You realize Soro is a natural Middleweight and has fought at MW several times right? His 4 previous matches were at MW and after the Tapia match he fought Blandamura at MW, so no, it was another 160 guy that cleaned Tapia's clock before Lemieux got to him.

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

IsaL said: ↑

This is a strange thread. Bashing a division and then arguing that the MW division is better that is why the Jr.MWs don't move up.

Very strange thread.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
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Well why is it that so many of them constantly bring up making a move to MW, they seem fascinated by the prospect of doing so, almost like they're just biding their time in a weak division in preparation for taking on the big boys up north, yet ultimately they always seem hesitant and never quite find the courage to do so?

MW is populated by a diverse array of international talents many of whom have never been seen by US audiences but they're tearing through subpar competition just as impressively as the Charlos, Andrade etc of the world. Please tell me what set of wins do the guys at JMW have to boast about, what makes them so amazing? Aside from a few of them facing and usually struggling against Vanes, their resumes are weak as f***.

The only fighter that has a solid resume out of that whole bunch is Austin Trout and Erislandy Lara, and they both struggling mightily against their step ups.

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

VBOX said: ↑

Good post, man.
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Thanks VBOX:good

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

shadz96 said: ↑

basicall american dominated divion deep european dominated divvision weak no bias there i see
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Yep that's the gist of it. It would be like Thai's saying that Minimumweight was the best division in the sport.

Kazakh Thunder · Jun 9, 2016

CST80 said: ↑

For quite some time the Junior Middleweight division has been hyped primarily by American fans as being a strong division, when in reality that couldn't be further from the truth. We Americans tend to eat up everything the media feeds us with a spoon, and for what its worth the Junior Middleweight division has been force fed to us on a fairly regular basis for awhile now by Al Haymon, Showtime and various other outlets, so its easy to see why so many may actually buy into that line of thinking. TV exposure dominates most peoples mindset, "if they're on TV they must be good, after all they're famous, we've heard of them, they're definitely a-side," it doesn't matter how average they may be as in ring performers as long as they've fought on TV a few times that means that Fighter A's resume is better than Fighter B's resume, since Fighter B has never been seen by American audiences, which is an incredibly idiotic way to view this very international sport. Simply put most Americans think the JMW is great because most JMW's fighters are Americans and are a constant presence on American TV, the same thing applies to the Brits who are wild about Lightweight, even though as a whole its a pretty terrible division, but the Brits do well there so some of them think its awesome. Well let me happily sledgehammer the f*** out of this illusion. Or is it delusion? For you.

The Junior Middleweight Division is very average, in fact you could almost say its weak. And here is why.....

Erislandy Lara - Easily one of the most overrated fighters on ESB and many other forums, he's a one handed one trick pony who barely wins most of his matches, I've never seen a guy with so many near draws get so much obsessive love from fanboys. If any other fighter had the career of Lara they'd be considered a midcard attraction, almost dare I say a gatekeeper to separate the men from the boys. He had well deserved draws against Molina and Martirosyan, looked poor against Canelo, was beaten up by Angulo before lucking out and landing a shot that cause a freak injury on a rampaging Perro. Well he did beat Paul Williams using the exact same strategy as Carlos Quintana so whoopty doo. He deserves credit for outclassing Trout, but it was a battle between two slick defensive counterpunching southpaws, Trout was out of his element and came in with a terrible game plan. Lara who pretends like he's some boogeyman that all should fear, is coming off of what should have been yet another draw over the very average Vanes Martirosyan, but of course he was supposed to win this one walking away to clear up a blemish on his record, well he did no better this time than he did the first time, but the judges didn't care and gave him a bull**** lopsided UD regardless. And in lieu of the real boss fighting at Caneloweight this guy is the friggin kingpin of the division.

Demetrius Andrade - The oh so scary bad bad man of the division, the man who should be feared by all, the man they call Boo Boo, the man who... wait what the hell has he done to earn this fearsome reputation exactly? Oh that's right he barely outpointed The Nightmare Vanes Martirosyan.... so what.. so did Kassim Ouma but he didn't get any credit for it. And unlike Ouma Andrade got dropped along the way by Vanes. His other big win is that amazing all time great world beater Brian Rose. Otherwise known as the guy who was KO1'd by Kell Brook victim Carson Jones, and some guy named Max Maxwell. The rest of Boo Boo's resume is littered with a vast array of rusty tin cans. Andrade has done virtually nothing to earn the terrifying reputation he has, fine he's slick and counter punches, so do most of the Junior Middleweight division.

Jermall Charlo - Otherwise known as the good twin, and how has he earned that reputation? By KOing a bunch of bums, well he does have a KO win over K9 Bundrage, but Sechew Powell beat him to it by 2 rounds as did Joel Julio, anyone with a punch can stop K9, and anyone with a slight skillset can outpoint him. Other than that no one of real note, most of them looked like they were scrounged up in some bowling alley somewhere and brought in to slaughtered for the adoring masses, who would be none the wiser. Then his big test came against Austin Trout and as I expected the good Charlo got the hell exposed out of him, Trout slipped almost everything he threw for the last 6 or 7 rounds of the fight and was backing him up and beating him down, Trout probably should have gotten the nod or at the very least a draw. Big heavy handed Jermall couldn't drop a guy than Daniel Dawson had out on his feet. Once the match was over all talk of him moving up to MW was promptly put on the back burner.

Jermell Charlo - The average twin, his best win is over a badly weight drained Gabriel Rosado, who he ran like hell from all night. He was exposed as the average boxer he is by once again by Martirosyan, in a match that should have gone to Vanes or at the very least should have been a draw, and then further exposed by the incredibly glass jawed John Jackson who was brought in to be a victim, and a victim he was but before that he put on a boxing clinic easily outpointing Jermell every round up until the KO, and Andy Lee had already beat him to that with a sensational 2014 KO of the year contender on Jackson. He will never amount to anything, it took him 6 rounds to take out Alcine who was stopped by Matthew Macklin in 1.

Liam Smith - Beefy the thoroughly average Smith brother who lost every round to John Thompson until John gassed and he KO'd him to win his paper title. He seems mildly re****ed and doesn't have even a semblance of what you could call skill. He's a schooling or brutal KO waiting to happen, aside from his win over Galarza KO2 victim Thompson he's fought no one of any real significance, just a bunch of poor Euro level guys who you wouldn't recognize even if I listed them for you. Callum is the far better technician in the family, and has the far better resume, in fact Stephen does too.

Jarrett Hurd - Another guy named Swift who thinks just because he stopped the below average caveman Frank Galarza that he's ready for Jermall Charlo, but considering the fact that Galarza had two draws against losers, outboxing him isn't that hard. He's just another loudmouth guy imitating Floyd Mayweather Jr. He has no great wins to prove he's worth even mentioning in the discussion.

Willie Nelson - He's already exposed several fighters like Tony Harrison, John Jackson and Yudel Jhonson he's decent but nothing spectacular. Due to his at times defenseless style and wild winging shots, he's a vicious KO waiting to happen, he was rocked several times by Arroyo, Cuello and Grajeda and got schooled by Vanes Martirosyn, he'll be a gatekeeper soon if he's not already.

Erickson Lubin - I like The Hammer and I want to root for him since he's from Florida but he was dropped pretty hard by Norberto Gonzalez, the footage of it has seemingly disappeared, as far as his power goes it took him as long to get rid of Lora as it took Thurman years ago, and we now know how overrated Keith's power was. Lubin is good against guys he's supposed to look good against, but with his weak chin and so so skills I'm not getting my hopes up.

Vanes Martirosyan - Well since he's partially exposed half the guys I've listed thus far that must mean he's really good right? Or it could just mean that they are just really average. Vanes does nothing that great, he's tenacious and has a good beard, that's about it. Yet this thoroughly average fighter has been able to have close fights with most of the top fighters in the division, which proves how weak the division truly is. He's a good fighter but nothing near special.

Tony Harrison - I had high hopes for Tony, since he was one of the last pupils from Kronk I had to root for him. But the moment he stepped up his power seemingly disappeared against a guy with a weak chin like Willie, he did well outboxing Nelson until Nelson knocked him the **** out. I thought it might be a mere fluke until Cecil McCalla of all people who is a feather fist had him out on his feet as well. They had to get his morale up by dragging in poor Fernando Guerrero to be his victim in his last fight. Tony will never be a top talent because of the horrid glass his packing.

Charles Hatley - He was finally the guy who lucked out and caught Mundine at the end and finished him off, he was basically Anthony's Grover Wiley, Hatley is ranked high because of that performance, but since he was put down by Richard Gutierrez and KO1'd by Lanardo Tyner. Don't get your hopes up with this one.

There's a litany of other fighters who are flawed and while they may score an upset here and there, they will never be top dogs like the mediocre German Jack Culcay, the rugged Mexicans Jorge Cota and Daniel Sandoval who have a few losses between them. Coceres from Argentina is basic and most likely a future Charlo victim, Oscar Molina and Domonique Dolton were both tentative disappointments in their match against one another, both seemed scared of getting hit and scared to let their hands go. Terrell Gausha looks like another bust from the 2012 US Olympic team, he put on a terrible performance against Trout KO victim Grajeda, that is not a good sign.
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CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

Kazakh Thunder said: ↑

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Thanks Sereal Killer:thumbsup

The Akbar One · Jun 9, 2016

Hatesrats said: ↑

Middleweight Division wishes it was 154lbs right about now. MW in 1016 sucks
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Exactly. Not sure what the motive is for even trying to suggest that the weakest middleweight division of the last 50 years is thicker with talent than 154. That is quite laughable.

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

The Akbar One said: ↑

Exactly. Not sure what the motive is for even trying to suggest that the weakest middleweight division of the last 50 years is thicker with talent than 154. That is quite laughable.
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That's your subjective opinion, not fact, the same easily applies to my article as well. But don't act as you're the objective one here because clearly you're not.

Please try to justify how the talent pool at JMW is impressive and beyond reproach, what have any of them done to prove they're worthy of being considered future P4P players? Nothing.

Two of the biggest baddest JMW's in recent memory Kirkland and Angulo both ventured to the MW division you call weak, and what happened? Kirkland was stopped in one round by a featherfist like Ishida, and Angulo was dominated by thoroughly average MW James De La Rosa who was subsequently KO'd cold by Centeno and schooled 10-0 by prospect Jason Quigley. Another MW in Soro came down and dispensed of Tapia quicker than Kirkland and in made it look easy.

So tell me why is it that 2 of Canelo's marquee wins were taken care of in more impressive fashion by below average also-rans in that so-called terrible division?

Moanamchara · Jun 9, 2016

Can you say agenda driven thread?

It is not like GGG tore up a talented division and fought some great fighters in the process. He is fighting in a division where his best wins are recycled from the previous era. His division is so bad that a crippled Martinez was able to stick around longer than he should have to get a decent pay day against a smaller past prime fighter who has lost his biggest fights and all of them were at weights he was suited at. That small past prime fighter also blew out one of GGGs best wins. Do you honestly think Cotto would of become lineal at 160 if the division had young talented fighters on the cusp of being great?

If you weren't so busy pining over your man crush maybe you could be objective. JMW has talented fighters rising up, talented champions, and an old guard from which to pass the torch from.

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

Moanamchara said: ↑

Can you say agenda driven thread?

It is not like GGG tore up a talented division and fought some great fighters in the process. He is fighting in a division where his best wins are recycled from the previous era. His division is so bad that a crippled Martinez was able to stick around longer than he should have to get a decent pay day against a smaller past prime fighter who has lost his biggest fights and all of them were at weights he was suited at. That small past prime fighter also blew out one of GGGs best wins. Do you honestly think Cotto would of become lineal at 160 if the division had young talented fighters on the cusp of being great?

If you weren't so busy pining over your man crush maybe you could be objective. JMW has talented fighters rising up, talented champions, and an old guard from which to pass the torch from.
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The only people who hype up this pathetic division are the ones with the agendas, I have no man crush, I've been very critical of GGG's fanboys on here and GGG himself on occasion, but this fallacy that is being propagated by many of the posters on here that MW is some kind of cesspool and that JMW is where its at, is asinine.

Cotto didn't blow out a damn thing, he had a drained corpse who should have probably been hospitalized since he was nodding off at the weigh in because he was so dehydrated in the ring that night, and did he KO him quicker than GGG? No he didn't.... so he had to violently headbutt Geale right in the chin to get an edge and force the stoppage on already compromised fighter.

Steve_Fox · Jun 9, 2016

bumland is worse

The Akbar One · Jun 9, 2016

CST80 said: ↑

That's your subjective opinion, not fact, the same easily applies to my article as well. But don't act as you're the objective one here because clearly you're not.

Please try to justify how the talent pool at JMW is impressive and beyond reproach, what have any of them done to prove they're worthy of being considered future P4P players? Nothing.

Two of the biggest baddest JMW's in recent memory Kirkland and Angulo both ventured to the MW division you call weak, and what happened? Kirkland was stopped in one round by a featherfist like Ishida, and Angulo was dominated by thoroughly average MW James De La Rosa who was subsequently KO'd cold by Centeno and schooled 10-0 by prospect Jason Quigley. Another MW in Soro came down and dispensed of Tapia quicker than Kirkland and in made it look easy.

So tell me why is it that 2 of Canelo's marquee wins were taken care of in more impressive fashion by below average also-rans in that so-called terrible division?
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It is clearly a deeper division than middleweight. As far as being impressive and beyond reproach, your words not mine. The comparison was between the two weight classes. Middleweight has Golovkin, Jacobs is the next best guy, and many on here trash him for getting KO'd by Pirog, who was an undefeated fighter, and no slouch. In my opinion it drops off a bit after that, Andy Lee, BJS, Eubank Jr., aren't setting the world on fire, and I would take some of the guys at 154 over all of them. Golovkin seems to be the guy that stands out. Jacobs seems to have some talent, but he runs hot and cold, even in winning. I wouldn't pick the Eubank Jr, I saw put that guy in the hospital, over Andrade, Williams, the bigger Charlo, or Lara. Don't even mention David "I got worked by fvcking Marco Antonio Rubio" Lemeaux. He has always been over rated to me. Also for the sake of argument, I don't count Canelo as a middleweight. If you paid attention to more of my old posts on here, you would see that I never rated Kirkland very highly, and Kirkland isn't part of the current deeper 154 pound division. Kirkland was getting worked by feather fisted Molina as well. I won't take the bate on why Canelo's two scrub opponents were handled easier at middleweight. Again, if you follow any of my posts on this forum, I was never high on Kirkland, even when he was the hot thing. His record was filled with bums. Angulo was nothing but a poor man's Margarito, back when 154 was actually somewhat barren. Angulo's claim to fame was catching Lara on an off night. Currently, 154 is deeper than 160. You have more boxers with talent and ability. I don't rate Eubank Jr. very highly. I don't rank Lemeaux, Cotto, Lee, etc. very highly at this point. Trout, Canelo, Williams, the Charlo's, ****oo, Soro, Smith, Lara etc. is a deeper group, than Golovkin, Jacobs, then a bit of a drop off, and BJS, Eubank Jr, Lemeaux etc.

CST80 · Jun 9, 2016

Please judge for yourselves.

JMW Talent Pool
Erislandy Lara
Julian Williams
Demetrius Andrade
Jermall Charlo
Jermell Charlo
Austin Trout
Liam Smith
Vanes Martirosyan
Jarrett Hurd
Charles Hatley
Willie Nelson
Tony Harrison
Erickson Lubin
Liam Williams
Jack Culcay
Oscar Molina
John Jackson
Domonique Dolton
Daniel Sandoval
Eric Walker
Jorge Cota
Marcelo Esteban Coceres
Custio Clayton
Kanat Islam
Sergio Garcia
Gary Cocoran

Vs.

The MW Talent Pool
Gennady Golovkin
Daniel Jacobs
Canelo Alvarez
Billy Joe Saunders
Chris Eubank Jr.
Sergiy Derevyanchenko
Ievgen Khytrov
Ryota Murata
Jason Quigley
Matt Korobov
David Lemieux
Brian Carlos Castano
Michel Soro
Caleb Plant
Andy Lee
Peter Quillin
Jorge Sebastian Heiland
Hassan N'Dam
Ivan Golub
Yamaguchi Falcao
Eaquiva Falcao
Avtandil Khurtsidze
Curtis Stevens
Antoine Douglas
Hugo Centeno Jr.
Maciej Sulecki
Vijender Singh
Anthony Ogogo
Gabriel Rosado
Alphonso Blanco
Tureano Johnson
Conrad Cummings
Rob Brant
Arif Magomedov
Immanuwel Aleem
Nuhu Lawal
Luis Arias
Patrik Szymanski
Kamil Szermeta

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Junior Middleweight: A Dreary Desolate Barren Dystopic Languid Shell Of A Division.

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Junior Middleweight: A Dreary Desolate Barren Dystopic Languid Shell Of A Division.

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