Thank you for replying to my reply. If your standards is ‘the middle judge’s card’ when it fits your narrative but ‘I’ll swing it 6 points the other way’ when it doesn’t, you don’t have a standard. The middle judge in the Tiberi fight gave it to Toney. The judges were appointed by the sanctioning body and the NJSAC allowed them to judge the fight. I don’t care what pieces of paper (licenses) they held because none of them were first-time judges who had never seen a fight. Toney KTFO Nunn when James was pre-prime (IMO) and Nunn was in his prime (without question) so I’d say Toney proved in the ring that he’s the better fighter. The guy who counted out Nunn would agree, I presume. You basically seem to think unless Toney beat someone twice it doesn’t count. I do not subscribe to ‘if you beat someone you have to beat them again in a rematch or the first result is not valid.’ It’s an interesting point of view but not one I lend any credence to. If you watch Toney and you don’t see superior boxing skill, I don’t know what to tell you.
There’s no way on earth he watched that fight live. He didn’t watch the McCallum fights until a month ago, and he had to Boxrec Reggie Johnson to see who he lost to.
It was actually a close fight as you can see here:https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/james-toney-vs-dave-tiberi. But you like the Toney - Griffin or Toney-Peter cards a lot but they were highly controversial fights as well. I smell an agenda. You like the judges when it suits your agenda. It is then pointless to debate with somebody like you.
Well Mendoza has a history of relying on Boxrec for his knowledge. I remember a Conteh v Kovalev thread a year or two ago and him arguing for Kovalev, he clearly never knew anything about Conteh and was even referring to him as Conner in the thread. He gave details about Conteh’s resume which clearly wasn’t Conteh! He’d also never heard of Jesse Burnett and admitted it, yet he still argued strongly for Kovalev.
Toney did lose the Tiberi fight, no question. I think your analysis of Toney in the 160 to 175 pond range is accurate, and I believe he's overrated when matched with the top tier of all time in those weight classes. His overall career is what has elevated his reputation not many actually great wins. I agree with some other posters, he was good, maybe very good, but nowhere near a great fighter.
To add some further perspective, this was during a time when Toney was fighting, on average, every 54 days (less than every 8 weeks); churning out wins against Nunn and Johnson, while being a touch unlucky (IMO) to only get a Draw against McCallum. That's some schedule.
Tiberi not taking the rematch may have been disgust with the decision but he also knew that he had no chance against a ready Toney. It was a lose lose situation for him.
But Nunn iced Kalambay ..... Kalambay schooled a prime McCallum ..... and Toney was only scraping past McCallum. So, it's all debatable who should rate where.
Of Course he did and yes my analysis on Toney is accurate. I agree, and laid out why he wasn't a great boxer What's sad is there are a few grown men who want to make this thread about me, rather than focus on boxing. When the boxing debate dies by some and turns in to lies or half truth off the topic of a subject you it over and they have nothing else to say, except agree with you which is why some duck my questions. We know who these fanboys are. For example Blade can't even say who won between Golovkin and GGG, his score cards are suspect the way it is.
An excellent point. A win over a prime McCallum is a very good win. Toney drew with the 35 year old version, was out landed and lost narrowly on my card.
Blade hasn't scored the fight. Of course he can't say who won. That's the right answer when you haven't scored the fight. You're the odd one for designating fights fixes and writing off produced scorecards without having scored the fight.
It was good and competitive, although I feel the fighters themselves have become somewhat overrated. Put them back 6 or 7 years, they'd be lost in the queue or in the ring against Hagler.
So your saying Toney was sharp while his opponents were often far more inactive and had to take these fights on short notice to get themselves in shape? Oo that point I agree with you. Why do you think Nunn, Tiberi, and Toney's Split decisions ( two of them ) never got a re-match? PS: I have seen you said the Toney vs. McCallum could be scored a draw, now your saying he was unlucky? Dude make up your mind.
