Just How Great a Heavyweight Was Ken Norton?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by RulesMakeItInteresting, May 12, 2019.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ..... and Ron Lyle is arguably Quarry's best uncontroversial win in his whole career.
    That's something else Quarry Fanboys should note.
     
  2. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I remember seeing the Ali Lyle fight and being kind of estranged at how bad Ali was doing...then cheering maniacally when Muhammad seemingly out of nowhere beat the crap out of him. It was one of the last flashes of greatness Ali would show in his career imo (probably the absolute last time was the last round of Shavers).
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    It was a big name decade. 4th isn't bad here. Too bad Norton didn't fight Fraizer in the mid 1970's, I think he likely beat him.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Quarry was a good counter guy with speed and decent durability, hence he matched up vs the bigger and slower puncher types. Quarry's biggest problem was consistency and cuts.
     
    Longhhorn71 likes this.
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Norton had 50 fights with 4 KO losses. Frazier had 37 fight with 3 KO losses. If Frazier fought more, he would have been dropped more often, and if he fought punchers like Shavers, Cooney or Lyle later in his career he's getting Ko'd too. Frazier quit boxing at age 32 after the Foreman fight. Had he fought on form 1976-1980, he's losing. Norton, Shaver's, Lyle...guys like that were the contender then. Norton fought many punchers in his mid 30's. The Cooney fight ( his last ) should hardly count. You're not convincing anyone that Frazier's chin was better.

    Frazier was actually put to his knees but Mike Bruce? Who? That's my point. He was wobbled and had his knees buckled by the likes of Stander, and stunned by the only solid punch Bugner landed.

    Ali hurt Frazier a few times, but he failed to do vs Norton, this to me suggests Norton's chin was at least even.

    Garcia was a top ten ranked contender for a while, Norton avenged that loss.

    Norton did much better vs Stander and Quarry, insert the excuse if you must, the film shows he did.
     
  6. Hookandjab

    Hookandjab Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Jerry's wins over Mathis, Shavers, Foster, and Spencer weren't too shabby either!
     
  7. ronnyrains

    ronnyrains Active Member Full Member

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    I agree Mendoza for the most part, Norton will be 1-2 vs Ali forever, you could make a case he won all 3 fights. And Lyle, the most exciting rumble ever, FOREMAN VS LYLE. And what was so crazy, you would think, oh he's out now, then they other bomber throws a haymaker, now the upperhand banger, is not only lost the edge, he's about to go lol! Chickie Ferrara told Lyle to put your back to the ropes, and throw lead rights when Foreman came in, (worked wonders) There's never been a brawl where both participants took and gave so much in 5 rounds, that i know of, to that degree anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  8. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Norton's greatness increases with every Wilder, Joshua, Fury, Ruiz winning titles. The skills, conditioning, heart all seem to be disappearing from the Heavyweight division. Norton was a great fighter. With a better chin, he would be an All Time Great.
     
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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  10. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I have doubts about Ken. Other than Ali, who did he beat?

    I dont ever think he would beat a prime Cooney or Riddick Bowe
     
    mark ant likes this.
  11. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He lost a fight to a young-and-on-fire Larry Holmes by one point. He beat prime time Jimmy Young. I'm forgetting people I know.
     
  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Can't believe all the garbage people are dumping on Ken Norton and Joe Frazier in this thread. George Foreman and Larry Holmes are often rated in the top five all-time heavyweights.

    Ken Norton is probably the biggest win of Holmes' career. Frazier IS the biggest win of Foreman's career. (And Norton is the second-biggest win of Foreman's career.)

    If these guys (Frazier and Norton) are so "ordinary" then why do you rank the guys who beat them in title fights so highly?

    People keep saying "take away Norton's fights with Ali and what do you have?"

    Well, take away Holmes' win over Norton and who is the best guy Holmes beat? Witherspoon? Pinklon Thomas beat Witherspoon easier than Holmes did.

    Take away Foreman's wins over Frazier ... George Foreman IS BASICALLY EARNIE SHAVERS.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  13. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Norton was a terrific heavyweight, and it annoys me that his knockout losses tend to diminish his standing in the eyes of many. His was a great blend of skills, grit and gutsiness; he was a great athlete who seamlessly blended boxing with brawling in a style that you rarely see in the higher weight divisions these days. He took Ali and Holmes to the brink on multiple occasions (and has a case for winning the series against Ali), beat a prime Quarry in five and decisioned the slippery Young, proving he could outthink the best of them.

    He had obvious vulnerabilities against punchers, but if you couldn't get him out of there soon then you were in for a very tough time. Even with those losses to Shavers and Foreman in mind, he was for me one of the very best HWs of the 70s.
     
  14. mark ant

    mark ant Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don`t think Norton was a great heavyweight but would have given a lot of great heavies problems just like in the Ali fights, I`d say he was the Terry Norris of the heavyweight division, good enough to keep the greats on their toes but not quite at their level and like Norris in his respective weight class and era had a chin that would often let him down if he had a defensive lapse which is more costly at heavyweight.
     
  15. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Ali was past his best ,Holmes had a torn left bicep going into their fight, Quarry was certainly not prime.
     


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