Just How Great a Heavyweight Was Ken Norton?

Norton’s greatest win was against Jimmy Young. The win that propelled Norton into the limelight was the first bout with Ali. However this was a very undertrained Ali.

 

Now thats something to think about in therms of Joe Frazier (H2H) !!!

I agree. There might be some rumors about Holmes beeing injured.
I´m not conform with arguing a more seasoned Ali in 03/73 was much worse than two years before at the Garden. Maybe some pounds to heavy.

Frazier gets maximal credit for beating Ali once, basically his wholy mystique is about that single win, while Norton gets some thumbs up….

 

They were calling him Mandingo for a minute because of his role in the mid 70s

 

Ali got in the best shape of his career for the rematch and still couldn't really get any separation from Norton. That version of Ali smokes alot of heavyweights but could only squeak by Norton.

 

Ali was in great shape for post 1970 Ali. He was not in the best shape vs pre exile Ali.

 

He was in the best condition of his career. He had trained harder for Norton than he had ever trained. At least that is what Ali was telling the media. He came in around 210. Razor sharp.

 

The Ali who fought Norton was an in shape nearly 32 year old veteran fighter. The Ali pre exile, say 1967, was an in shape prime athlete of 25 years of age.

Thus Ali May have been in incredible shape but incredible shape for a 32 year old fighter. He was no where near prime as a fighter.

 

Since everytime a boxing anaylist colleague and myself , get chastised for using RING MAGAZINE as a ratings gig for a fighter's career, If anybody in the whole boxing nation , can give or ENLIGHTEN me on the month to month WBA LISTINGS, i'll be more than glad to use them, I still think the Ring does a better job, and you can count on a monthly with Mr. Fleischer, (they never took Muhammad Ali's title away).

time line 1960-80 WBA if anyone even has them.

SWEET SCIENCE :
Ring had Ken Norton Number #6 going into his bout with Rico Brooks (April Issue -Ratings 2/15/75)
HOWEVER YOUR GRADING IS Attttt for your ring research .

1) yes I been thru WBA RATINGS FROM BOXING ILLUSTRATED some had 3 listings the whole year (1966, 1968 etc.. it was no way month to month, -1973 quit listing they actual release dates, and quit listing them altogether by 1976.
2) And the newspaper archives!
3) contacted the WBA itself, and they said the Heavyweight Ratings were destroyed in a fire!

 

It’s interesting how he universally gets rated above guys like McCall, Douglas,Witherspoon, and Brewster.

McCall tko’d Lewis and beat Seldon, Akinwande, a faded Holmes and faded Damiani, and an inexperienced Maskaev.

Witherspoon almost beat Holmes and did beat Bonecrusher, Tubbs, Page, Gonzales, Bruno, Snipes, Tillis and Cole.

Brewster tko’d Wlad and made decent defenses against Golota, Krasniqi, and Meehan. He also had an ATG fight with Liakovich.

I feel like Norton is in this class but has the benefit of fame to put him ahead. I also think he’d lose to all except McCall.

 

I think you're missing someone. I don't know how Larry Middleton and Mac Foster could be rated that high in November 1972 and Jerry Quarry not be rated at all. Quarry beat Middleton in May that year.

 

Really not debatable. No one denies the Ali pre suspension was fitter and greater than the Ali post suspension.

 

Holmes went into the Norton fight with a torn left biceps muscle,that is confirmed.

 

Ali told the world he was in great shape for the Holmes fight!

 

Norton was stylistically wrong for Ali,as Ali was not a huge puncher Norton, who could only fight going forwards,with his," foot in a bucket stance." could do so with impunity Eddie Futch noticed that Ali kept his right hand out of position when he jabbed,so he instructed Norton to throw the jab as soon as Ali did,his own right hand was in the correct position to catch/block Ali's jab ,whereas his jab landed.