Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by RulesMakeItInteresting, May 12, 2019.
Did you know that Frazier knocked Ken Norton cold in sparring?
He was snoring
According to Frazier's own people they were not eager to match with Liston. Punchers outside of Foreman are hard to find on Frazier's resume. Liston, Martin ( which might have happened if not for his eye injury ), Shavers, Lyle, Mac Foster, thrown Norton in there too as he had a pretty good punch.
More often than not Frazier picked matches vs the Ellis and Machen types, small boxer types without a lot of power. A swarming attacker with power like Frasier always eats these types up. A styles thing
So the gym stories go? Do you know Frazier was down several times in a high stakes NJ boxing match. That is official.
Norton vs Frazier in 1975-1977 I think goes Kenny's way.
Any comment on his fight with Scrap Iron Johnson? I'd like to see the film.
Quote Frazier's words. I do agree with you on Tyson. I also think Tyson beats Frazier.
Eddie Futch a solid enough source? Ken Norton's own book?
I dont need to knock Norton. He was a fine fighter.
No at the beginning I thought you were serious. I didn't know you were kidding with us the whole discussion.
On point followers realise Barkley actually fought a GREAT fight vs Duran. He did everything he was supposed to yet still came off second best.
There are hundreds of examples. Maybe you just don't pick up what i am putting down.
Ali was knocked down by Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper and wobbled by Doug Jones who would have won but he played Golf the day before.
Ken Norton is somewhere just below Quarry. Very good figher.
Joe won 10 rounds against Scrap out of 10
Barkley was too easy to hit v Duran.
How much older was Liston compared to Frazier though?
Holmes had a torn left bicep muscle ,his best punch was his left jab.he had problems with pain all night but decided to risk permanent injury to gain the victory ,unlike some others such as Vitali Klitschko who quit rather than go for it.Its well documented .
Good fighter - a level below that of Ali and Frazier, but one good enough to trouble greats.
Conventional boxing lore holds that Norton's capacity to give Ali the difficulties he did came from 1) Futch's strategy, and more importantly, 2) Norton's gym work with Frazier.
I still stand by my basic statement: Ken Norton was a great though seriously flawed heavyweight boxer. Top 25 all the way for me, and I believe he would have beaten even a select crew of champions from both before and after his era.
As far as Frazier, he was the master for something like five years, and I believe he would have easily been Ali's toughest opponent even during Ali's seemingly invincible 60s run. And I do take away points from Joe for what was a pretty obvious ducking of guys like Liston (who was still a damn fine fighter after Ali's wins) and Norton.
Both Frazier and Norton proved their heart countless times in the ring, which is more than I can say about common top ten nominations like Liston and Tyson. Neither of the latter two ever fought fights against great opposition and won, nor scraped themselves off the canvas and gave it all as hard as they could (win or lose). The former two did all of that and more.
I don't put Norton above Liston and Tyson, however it's not as farfetched as some might imagine. But then, I rate heart right up there when it comes to ATGs.
I don't put Frazier up over Tyson anymore (though I did until recently), because where Mike ducked mostly just Foreman, Frazier did what was mentioned above.
I think the most damning thing against Joe is how he never fought Norton....the more I think about it the more that idea smells bad. Norton should have been a no-brainer match up in the 70s (though I think Frazier would have outpointed him and probably floored him it wouldn't have been a shut out by any means...and Joe might have gotten knocked down himself).