Just like Martinez , Chavez is not the same after there fight

This is all just imo, from how I personally see his form, execution, and abilities within the ring, while taking into account the opponent in front of him. By all means if someone disagrees with me then they have just as valid an opinion.

But imo,

Martinez was (luckily for him) at his peak in Williams 1 (which was a brutal fight, which I believe took a lot out of Williams (deteriorating his punch resistance actually imo), Pavlik, Williams 2, and culminated in the Dz fight. Imo, I viewed a weaker, slightly less sharp, and more vulnerable Martinez in the Barker fight, by a slight margin.

Then the Macklin fight showed me for sure that what I saw in the Barker fight wasn't just the case of Barker making Martinez look vulnerable. I like Macklin a lot as a fighter but the truth is to me that the Martinez that fought Pavlik (2 years earlier at that point) would have had an easier time with him (imo).

Which is why I stated before the Chavez fight that it was dangerous (The fight turned out more one sided then I thought, I figured Chavez would do better actually throughout the fight then he did). Because not only is Jr a dangerous opponent for someone like Martinez, it was my opinion that Martinez was steadily declining as a fighter, if even slightly (I felt this before the Jr fight)

He wound up looking better then I thought he would in the beginning, I must say that Martinez looked pretty sharp, but the Murray fight to me, was just continuing a trend that has been happening for the last two years in my eyes, outside of one fight. And that is a slight decline in Martinez from fight to fight.

I really don't put much stock into Jr ruining him at all.




As for JMM and Hopkins. They are skill and IQ based boxers. While there is skill involved in what Martinez does, his style is based on athleticism.

An aging fighter, whose body is slowing and breaking down on them, trying to rely on an athletic style such as Martinez, is going to show a lot more decline in their game over the same period of time where an IQ based fighter with a more textbook style will.

This is why (again, just imo) Marquez has been able to overtake Pac in the ring, as like Martinez, Pac is an aging fighter that relies on a style that needs freakish athletic ability. Its why I picked Marquez to win the 4th and would pick him to win the 5th.

The gap between fighters like JMM and Hops, and Pac and Martinez, will widen over time as the athletic based fighters find their athleticism fading, while the IQ based fighters adapt and are able to maintain a level of success because their game isnt contingent upon such dynamic physical attributes (other then timing)

Sorry I suppose Im rambling here.... damnit.

Ill end with, I wouldn't argue with someone too much over it, if they believe Chavez ruined Martinez then it is what it is, but just to me, I viewed a decline in Martinez before the Chavez fight, and the Murray fight was just a continuation of that.

I hope Im wrong and it was just injuries, and he can come back as good as ever, but Ill be surprised if he does.

And whether he was indeed ruined by chavez or not, and Chavez ruined by Martinez (which I also don't think so, though he ate many many hard punches that night) at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. Neither fighter will seemingly be the same as when they fought each other that night, which is too bad.

But I can see where youre coming from for sure.

sorry for the long post.