Just re-scored Kovalev vs Ward. 2nd scorecard comparison with 1st card

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NewBoxingOrder, Nov 21, 2016.


  1. T_S_A_R

    T_S_A_R Member Full Member

    370
    175
    Jan 9, 2011
    Paulie actually said 'Kovalev can't hit him' at the end of a round (9th or 10th I think) where we had seen him landing three clean head shots in the final 90 seconds.
     
    NewBoxingOrder likes this.
  2. DJN16

    DJN16 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,733
    2,799
    Sep 15, 2013
    One of the best posts I have ever seen, well done.
    I gave the fight to Ward but have not watch it again yet.
     
    Rumsfeld and NewBoxingOrder like this.
  3. pincai

    pincai The Indonesian Thin Man Full Member

    7,914
    10,455
    Jun 10, 2012
    If you give ward more than 1 round in the first half, you are bias towards ward. I thought he won only round 4.
     
  4. lencoreastside

    lencoreastside Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    20,213
    5,012
    Dec 27, 2010
    Round ten was a DEFINITE Kovalev round. Yet all 3 judges failed to score it for him.
     
    NewBoxingOrder likes this.
  5. conraddobler

    conraddobler Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    6,853
    147
    Mar 7, 2010
    Interesting insights and thanks for posting. I think Ward won round 12 though.

    see Youtube video for Ward's work in round 12 all stitched together.
    This content is protected
     
    NewBoxingOrder likes this.
  6. wildharpo

    wildharpo Member Full Member

    392
    17
    Sep 29, 2007
    Excellent post.

    On the flip side of your argument that you allowed Kovalev's power and his dropping of Ward in the second round to influence how you scored the fight in favor of Kovalev, I would say that a lot of individuals (myself included) may have fallen into the "David vs. Goliath" mindset while watching the fight. America loves an underdog. We love to see an individual overcome the odds. We love to see David defeat Goliath.

    I would be lying if I didn't at least consider that this mindset was why I chose to give some of the close rounds to Ward. After seeing Kovalev drop him in the second, I knew that Ward had tasted his power and would have to "walk the tightrope" as Kellerman was saying during the fight for the remaining ten rounds. Seeing him do this masterfully, in my opinion, was what caused me to give him the rounds. He was just aggressive enough that I couldn't say he laid back completely in each round, yet he was smart enough and defensive enough that he also got in and got out - he didn't stick around to get countered by Kovalev (for the most part).

    Again, excellent post.
     
    NewBoxingOrder likes this.
  7. conraddobler

    conraddobler Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    6,853
    147
    Mar 7, 2010
    Watch again. Kovalev won 4. Ward won 5 and possibly 3.
     
    Rumsfeld likes this.
  8. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,003
    1,859
    Oct 13, 2008
    Also, just so people understand, when I scored the fight the second time and gave more rounds to Ward, that doesn't mean that the rounds weren't close that I newly gave to him and that some people may have given those close rounds to Kovalev. Obviously I gave those rounds to Kovalev the first time I saw the fight.

    When I scored the fight the first time, I had three "close" rounds marked on my flexible scorecard (base scorecard with close rounds marked). Those "close" rounds I gave to Kovalev the first time were rounds 3, 8 and 9. But in the second viewing I gave all those close rounds to Ward. That changed my scoring from 117-110 to 114-113 for Kovalev. That's a big change, but it came on mostly close rounds being swung to Ward (except the 9th round, which CompuBox had Ward winning more cleanly).

    Rounds 3 and 8, CompuBox had Ward winning by a single punch each. So the rounds were close, but a slight change in how you scored one to three rounds can widely affect the scorecard, even if every round you change is a very, very close round.

    I gave Ward more the benefit of the doubt in my second viewing, which was probably fair given how I perceived Ward when watching the fight live.

    Still, I understand (obviously, since this is how I scored it the first time around) people having Kovalev by a wide margin. You can get to that if you give more close rounds to Kovalev. Similarly, you can get to a "close Kovalev win/draw/close Ward win" if you go by how I saw the fight the second time around.

    My overall point in this thread is that this is not the "super robbery" I initially thought it was. Ward did do more than I thought he did in first seeing the fight. And I say that even with the perspective of my scoring the fight for Kovalev in both of my two viewings.

    You have to be willing to look at a fight from all perspectives, not just from the perspective of how you may have originally seen the fight, and not just from the perspective of the person whom you wanted to win the fight.
     
    Rumsfeld likes this.
  9. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,003
    1,859
    Oct 13, 2008
    Also, I made an error in my initial post of the thread. I did have Ward winning Round 7 in my initial scorecard, and I erroneously marked that as a "changed round" in my second viewing. I have fixed that error and corrected the statement that I changed 4 rounds in the second viewing to having changed 3 rounds, instead.
     
  10. alexthegreatmc

    alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

    39,120
    1,801
    Sep 10, 2013
    We need more fans like you. You were open minded and you actually found different results. I think you're second score card is more on point, regardless of winner. This looked like a split decision type victory to me.
     
    NewBoxingOrder likes this.
  11. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,042
    95
    May 16, 2006
    ... which is why I expressed surprise in the main thread that the decision was unanimous (all to the tune of the same aggregate scoring). I'm still surprised that there wasn't a judge who saw this narrowly for Kovalev, but at the same time every scorecard was very reasonable, other than round 10 which struck me as odd, with all nods going to Ward. It's like the benefit of doubt against the recent momentum in the fight that Ward was given for round 3 was not afforded to Kovalev for round 10.

    edit:

    This would have led to a split decision if everything else remained the same, in favour of Ward.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    NewBoxingOrder likes this.
  12. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,003
    1,859
    Oct 13, 2008

    Thanks man.

    I think the range of "acceptable" scoring in this fight, from watching it both times, is between "comfortable Kovalev win (4-7 points) to narrower Ward win (1-3 points)". After watching the fight again, I can see things more from the "Ward side" of the equation than I initially felt when watching the bout. And this reassessment of the fight includes factoring in things like the crowd affecting judges, etc.

    You have to be fair and honest in scoring and viewing fights. Or you have no credibility. And you do have to take into account that judges are human beings and can be affected by things like how crowds react and so on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  13. RingKing75

    RingKing75 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    8,037
    5,148
    Dec 23, 2013
    Great post with a refreshing dose of honesty which is rare here. I havent watched the fight again but i had the fight 6 rounds a piece with Kovalev winning on the knock down. I also gave ward another round that couldve gone either way so either way id likely have Kovalev winning the fight. Im a fan of both fighters but was pulling for ward and thought he`d win. Cant wait for the rematch.
     
    NewBoxingOrder likes this.
  14. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,003
    1,859
    Oct 13, 2008
    Just to be even clearer, here are the "max" scores I can come up with for each fighter after watching the fight twice.

    * Best Kovalev score = 117-110 Kovalev (my first card) === [Kov +7 points]
    * Best Ward score = 115-112 Ward (Ward wins rounds 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12) === [Ward +3 points]

    This second score is exactly what two of the judges had for the second part of the fight (Ward takes rounds 7-12). People were outraged that two judges gave Kovalev no rounds after the 6th, but after watching the fight a second time I can see how the judges got there, even if I don't think that is the 'correct' scoring.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  15. NewBoxingOrder

    NewBoxingOrder Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,003
    1,859
    Oct 13, 2008
    Also, if you would like to compare my scores in this thread to both the official scorecards for the fight and the CompuBox scores you can do that here.

    Official scorecards
    This content is protected


    CompuBox (with round by round stats)
    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016