Just Realised Arturo Gatti was COMPLETELY PAST PRIME vs Floyd Mayweather!

Seeing this post has enabled to see why we disagree with regards to May/Pac. The hardest thing when talking boxing is that we have different criteria for ranking greatness.

Pac before the catchweight stuff? Pac is the MUCH smaller guy. Big deal, Pac fought an elite, prime Cotto of 2008 at 145lbs where Cotto made clear after the fight he had no problems making and felt very good at that weight.
Margarito was 150lbs at the weigh in, but Pac was 6lbs less in the weigh in. You're going to discredit Manny for 'catchweights'? That's absurd and is completely different to fighting compeltely past prime/shot Greats like Mayweather did.

Names mean a LOT. A fighter who beats ATG's to me have proved their greatness on a higher level than those who beat a Corrales, Juuko, Sosa lol etc. This shows how differently we think.

I don't really count Napoles' or Monzon's early losses against them. Moreover the factor that intensifies this point is that Pac fought in poverty conditions in his beginnings, he lacked great training and had poor nutrition, YET still managed to succeed.

Also, despite being knocked out a couple of times, going through WARS which damage prime and the body (Pipino Cuevas, Wilfredo Benitez being past prime before they were 25), this will have a notable effect on a fighter. Pac is now in his third fight against a welterweight Timothy Bradley (probably a future HOF). Who would have believed such a report?


I actually believe Mayweather lost to Jose Luis Castillo, and drew with Marcos Maidana on the first fight.
People need to understand that the most common scorecard was 115-113 Mayweather. I'm not stretching it in any way whatsoever to state Maidana earned a draw - any two scorecards from major Floyd fans would disagree over the number of rounds Maidana won, thus ironically even making a case for a Maidana victory.
These were stylistic threats. If I'm giving credit for Mayweather's 49-0, then there's no reason why I shouldn't give Pac credit for having two wins over Marquez. What I won't do though, is say 'Pacquiao lost to Bradley' or 'Mayweather squeezed past Canelo in a tough fought MD).

You mention the Marquez rivalry and make a big deal of it...guess what? These are wins/even fights against an ATG who happens to be Pacquiao's ultimate stylistic threat - and for the most part, we're talking a Marquez of the lower weight classes. Mayweather did nothing of the sort. When he did fight the most prolific stylistic threats, he was 2-1-1 (IMO) although 4-0 officially, against Maidana and Jose Luis Castillo. Maidana is NOT elite, and Castillo is not a guaranteed HOF by ANY means.

Pacquiao was MEANT to be knocked out left, right and centre by normal sized light welterweights. He went and defied logic and got a belt at 150lbs (light Middle) against an elite fighter who weighed almost 170lbs on fight night and has a big frame.

I don't give Pac ANY credit for beating the Morales of the third fight. The rematch? Yes.
I reject the notion that Barrera was 'past his prime' against Pacquiao. Barrera beat Morales one more time, beat Paulie Ayala, as well as generally good competition after the Pac fight.

Your post proves nothing other than you rigging your criteria (perhaps unknowingly over the years) so as to discredit Pac and give credit to Maywewather, so much so that you are overlooking and making less of Pac's career post 2008 (Pre-2008 STILL means Pac went from 106lbs to 140lbs), but that is where Pac's greatness cements its position in the Top 20 of all time stratosphere.
If you were to hold yourself to double standards, Duran would not be a Top 20 ATG in your rankings.
The question we should really be pondering is: Should we have expected a Pacquiao beyond lightweight to KO Hatton, prime Cotto and humilate Margarito?

 

IB makes the fundamental mistake of not realising that:
1. Pac is an aggressive fighter - they don't rise up weight classes well at all. For example, we say how great Wilfredo Gomez is as an aggressive fighter but he got KTFO left right and centre as he had risen just one weight class.
2. Pac has been in SO MANY wars.
3. Pac's ring age is OLD by the time post 2008.
4. Pac was the small man at 140lbs and beyond who virtually no one thought could win anything. Let's look through a recently bumped thread - http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=63302

Fun fact, I used to intensely dislike Pac and was a major Floyd fan who would try and discredit Pac a lot.