Just something i'd like to say about Pernell Whitaker....

Calling a fighter names makes you look like a fool. I´m not saying I´m disagreeing with you though I don´t agree entirely also.

 

:deal

 

Calzaghe is a total waste and will forever be a mystery provided he beats Jones and retires. Whitaker is overrated, a guy that good or that dominant, a supposed top ten AtG doesnt get a draw or lose the fights he did.

 

When people call Pernell Whitaker a runner, I have to wonder how much they saw of him. He might not have been the most agrisive or the hardest hitter but for the most part he was in his oponenets punching range. Just becuse someone is hard to hit doesn't make them a runner.

 

So, you think the draw against Chavez and the loss to Ramirez was the right decision? Really? I mean losing to fellow atgs while beeing past his prime in DLH, I actauylly had Whitaker winning but I can see the argument for DLH, and Trinidad is hardly a shame.

 

Then I would rather take a look at your Top 10 ATG list and see if I can find an elite fighter who didn't lost or got a draw in his resume.

Pernell had a style of his own but to say he is over rated because he "drew" against Julio Cesar Chavez (which I just rewatched and scored it 8-4 for Sweet Pea) or "lost" against De La Hoya (which of course I rewatched it as well and scored it 6-5-1 for Sweet Pea) is quite stunning. I don't talk about the Ramirez robbery.

And Whitaker is not even in my Top 10 ATG list by the way.

 

Calzaghe, a runner? :think

 

If this is so, explain to me why I rank McCallum, Toney, Chavez, Barrera, Marquez, Whitaker and a legion of other modern, full-color boxers as premiere technicians? Why do I rank Duran -who wasn't even born in the 40s -in the top 5 or 6 all time?

I am not going to re-argue Pep's superiority to Whitaker in terms of p4p ranking, but I for one am not convinced that great fighters like Leonard and Whitaker would have emerged as unscathed as you suppose had they had to fight every other week for years.

"Fighting often" is not the end all be all, but it is a factor and should not be so easily dismissed. You constantly dismiss it, excuse it, and rationalize it for Whitaker, but I don't see you acknowledging that it's a factor.

Do you have a problem with fighters sparring to keep sharp or "keep warm"? There is no better training for fighting than fighting itself -under the lights before a crowd. Take a look at how many clubfighters Greb fought.

It's experience. Experience is invaluable.

You can't be serious.

You fail to acknowledge that Whitaker is a LW and Saddler a FW. You fail to acknowledge that Pep faced a prime Saddler during his comeback after a PLANE CRASH. You fail to recognize the utter danger of Sandy Saddler -who I would take real care about assuming would be beat by any featherweight who ever lived. You fail to recognize -again- that Pep's win over Saddler was extraordinary and -again- that it exceeds every performance by Whitaker, including Ramirez II.

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In terms of precedence, in terms of history, in terms of style, Pep is Whitaker's daddy. And that's a high complement.

 

The point Im making is a true top 10 Atg doesnt leave any room for a tough slow as **** guy like Ramirez to even entertain the possibility of a draw, but by ****ing around jukeing and not throwing punches he got
screwed too! bad . This guy is overhyped on here and everyone else just stamps their approval! this guy doesnt belong in an alltime top ten ever! top 50 yes somewhere in there between 25-35.

Example: Benny Leanord was of the hit and not be hit school of boxing. Great tactician and studier of the science of the ring. Whitaker should never ever be above a guy like Benny Leanord and if leanord doesnt fit in your top ten then sure as hell Whitaker dont belong there either.
Benny Leanord in a P4P sense should rate ahead of Whitacre thats just one example.

 

I find this funny considering I rate pernell whitaker in my top 5 lightweights of all time list


I just dont think he has the resume to ever be considered top 10 in history p4p


ps modern fighters like pacman, delahoya, toney, jones, hopkins, MAB, mayweather, i consider these guys all very top boxing wizards who rate high on my lists.

 

He got screwed because of the corruption of the judges, not because he was playing around and not throwing punches. To even mention that decision as some kind of blight on his record is a joke.

You had boxing mags of the time scoring the fight to Whitaker by scores of 10 rounds to 2 and 9 rounds to 3, how the hell are you even going to play that off as some kind of justifiable decision?

Whitaker isn't in the top 10 because he didn't have enough fights to prove himself (to establish a top 10 resume). It has NOTHING to do with 'losing' to Ramirez and 'drawing' with Chavez.

 

Who said I have Whitaker in my Top10? I haven´t. He´s in my Tier5 alongside Jimmy Wilde and Benny Leonard which would make a position between 15 and 17 on a list. He surely isn´t overhyped. Some people rate him a bit too high but you rate him far too low.

You think there is any way Ramirez I could be scored a loss for Pea or even a draw? Sorry but no way. That was a schooling and even a more clear win than Whitaker´s win over Chavez.

 

fighting and cleanly beating two of 1980s best lightweights hector camacho and edwin rosario in 86-87 would have helped IMO alot.

also taking on and beating trinidad in 93-97 would have helped.