Just spent 2 hours watching Ray Robinson and...

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Punches just as hard ?
Pac making SRR tired ?

OK, Ive heard it all now :rofl

 

I would not call him a great human being. Unless we're comparing him to someone like Osama Bin Laden or Jeffrey Dahmer.

He beat up his wife so bad that his son, Ray Robinson Jr., blames Edna Mae's five miscarriages on his father's abuse of her. He beat up his kids too.



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXS78lAsIxE[/ame]

 

Yeah, it's pretty clear that SRR was a shitty person. Mayweatheresque.

 

atsch, but okay, that's your opinion. Muscles and drugs don't win fights. Just look what Oscar did to a bigger, stronger, younger Fernando Vargas who was all juiced up when they fought. A juiced up Mosley in his rematch with Oscar was outboxed by Oscar, but if you say so.

Yes, you are right, it is big, but not extremely big like Williams is. You had Margarito, Trinidad at 5'11'', Oscar who started as a superfeatherweight 5'10'', Tommy Hearns 6'1''. And SRR started as a LW.

 

Yea he was well known for that, but it was never brought up much. GOAT though, not a perfect human being, no justification for what he did.

 

I think most great fighters would be successful in any era. Maybe not to the same extent due to circumstances, but they'd still be really good. For instance, take Mayweather, who has had problems with his hands. You put him in the 40s where he has to fight so frequently due to lesser paydays. I still think he'd do well, but he'd most likely have a lower KO percentage due to wanting to protect his hands. It wouldn't show in the KO percentage though that he does have pretty decent pop.

I look at some champions of the past and some of them look inferior to more modern champs. In other cases, it's the opposite. Some recent champs look inferior to older champs.

And then in other cases, some guys just look ugly when they fight, but they are still great fighters, like Carlos Monzon.

 

:deal Noobs, listen to this man he knows what he speaks of. Look up fighters like Beau Jack, Ike Williams, Archie Moore. Especially Williams and Jack those guys look huge even by today's standards and they were lightweights.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBIs09wpbIw[/ame]

 

As I said in my previous post, I don't question the talent and/or ability of SRR, but I also recognize and appreciate the ability of an exceptional (once in a generation type) fighter today. In my opinion PBF has that kind of ability, and his ability much the same as SRR, are timeless. My point is that if you take two guys of what would be equal ability (not necessarily SRR/PBF) to compare them the dynamics of their respective situations would have to be considered, as well as how they would perform in the context of each others time. I feel as though in today's landscape PBF would have the distinct advantage, if you put PBF in the 40's SRR would have the advantage.

As an example if SRR were fighting today, would he be able to have the kind of success he has had with the level of media scrutnity today's athlete endures, especially as it pertains to his personal life? How would that impact him, how does he handle it, then how does he perform. I point to Tiger Woods as an example of this phenomenon, he is arguable one of the greatest athletes of our lifetime, his mental toughness and focus were second to none and his performance speaks for itself. Up until all his dirty laundry was dragged out for all the world to see, in turn his performance/production was impacted and he's not been the same since.

I do believe athletes are physically better today than they were 40 years ago and that is pretty clear to see as the examples are endless. Whether you accept it or not, athletic ability IS a huge factor in ATHLETIC competition such as boxing. It's not the only factor, but it is a huge factor and to discount the evolution of athletics as a whole is simply flawed. If you compare extremes such as an ultra athlete from today with little to no skill vs. an extraordinarily skilled but less athletic fighter from the past, it's easy to say "athletic ability isn't important". But when comparing athletes that are reasonably and relatively close comparison wise, any difference is important to include athletic ability.

 

They do more than just increase muscle mass. Granted they do increase water retention as a side note, but

When fully saturated with creatine, it provides additional energy to re-convert ADP to ATP in the muscles, allowing the necessary to perform the crucial last few reps in a set.

True however that it really does jack **** for boxers as this is for primarily anaerobic activity.

 

We have talked about evloution hear and while people have not changed enough to make an impact in this fight. 147 is still 147.
The game of boxing has.
I beleive that this aspect is an advantage for Mayweather. When there is a change in the way we do anything it comes from learning from our past experances.
It is often mentioned in the classic fourm that boxers in the past were tougher than they are today. I agree. That dose not make them better.
How might this factor play out in a Robinson/Mayweather fight?
Robinson fought guys who were more willing to stand and trade with him than Mayweather would ever be. Boxing may have always been about hitting and not getting hit but I think it is more so now days.
Watching Robinson he gets of these great and quick combos going toe to toe. I don't see Mayweather going toe to toe with Robinson let alone anyone. This means that Robinson may not be able to get those combos off.
I have said this before. If Robinson stays on the out side uses his jab. He will win. His outside game is better than anything Mayweather can do. However from what I can tell he tends to abandan his jab to go toe to toe. If he dose that he is going to give Mayweather a big advantage.
All this being said I think that if Robinson was around today he would be even more diffcult to beat than he was in real life. As I think he would box more from the outside and fight a lot less on the inside.

 

Tha lil dude as skilled as a mother ****er. I can't believe he lost. Who are those guys?

 

Williams was a pretty big lightweight, about 5'9, and not just lanky. His frame looks pretty filled out for a LW.

I do think that some of the fighters nowadays are bigger though, due to the weigh-in procedures. No matter what the rules are there's going to be some fighters that cut more weight than others, but I figure there's only so much weight you can put back on in 6 hours, as opposed to now when there's 24 hours more and some fighters have a doctor in the hotel room with an IV ready. Even after all these years of watching, I still kind of shake my head that such well-conditioned athletes can put on nearly 20 pounds in 30 hours.

 

Ray Robinson was definitely on PEDS.