Just watched Lewis-Holyfield 1 again.

Terrible decision. I figure Lewis won 9 or 10 rounds.

Crappy fight.
Holyfield was poor and this fight should effect his standing a bit, he failed to get past Lewis's size and fairly basic gameplan. He seemed to just wanna bore in but did so in such a sloppy manner, Lewis just jabbed at him and picked him off easily. Holyfield would parry one or two, then take two or three.

Lewis. I'm sorry, but you guys who have this man among the top 5 heavyweights of all-time must be kidding. I'm really trying to appreciate his "greatness" as I watch this fight, but seriously he's not that impressive. The 5th round is hilarious. There's Holyfield stunned on the ropes looking like old man river, ready to be taken, Lewis begins to open up then just totally stops punching, steps back, half a minute later he's backing off with Holyfield chasing him. He does some goofy dance before the bell rings and looks relieved when the round is over.

Then, HALF A MINUTE INTO THE 6TH Lewis does another goofy thing, drops his hands and is about to clown, and Holyfield instantly makes him pay with a left hook that glances but wobbles or worries Lewis. (And I've pointed out before that the Rahman defeat was the result of another such manifestation of that goof-around amateurish tendency. Still, most people here are in denial)

Oh, I can go on and say why Lewis wasn't impressive and give more examples, but he was a lot better overall in this fight than Holyfield was.
Evander just bounced up and down most of the time, or plodded slowly forward. Doing nothing.

Both guys did some wrestling throws in this fight. I guess they need to test the steroids are working.

Why the hell Lewis didn't try to knock Evander out is anyone's guess. Manny Steward seems to wonder the same thing. Lewis just didn't have it.

Seriously, Lewis and Holyfield were crap in this fight. Holyfield was ultra-crap.
I'd frankly rather watch Ali-Wepner.
Ali coasts and clowns a bit, fat and letting a clubfighter pummel him for a few rounds, and basically gets hit far too much, but at least he shows brief glimpses and flashes of great speed, accuracy and combinations, and gets up on his toes occasionally to show flashes of what made him a master. And besides, we know it is Ali almost at his worst !

 

I notice Larry Merchant excuses Lewis's inability or reluctance to go for the kill by pointing out that Holyfield is "playing possum". But that's weak excuse.
About half a minute into the 7th round, Lewis surprises Holyfield with a right just after a break, and Holyfield is hurt, backs off into the ropes. Whether he's playing possum or not, Lewis's only answer is to tap at Holy's gloves for about 12 seconds, staying way clear, until Holyfield launches an "attack" which amounts to nothing.

Lewis hurts Holyfield quite a lot in this fight, and every time he looks scared and backs off, even when he's throwing monstrous uppercuts. Holyfield just plods forward and Lennox shys away. Very strange.

 

I feel totally left out of the Lennox Lewis appreciation club, utterly unable to gain entry.
He sucks, and there's nothing I can do about it.
Maybe I should just concentrate on the uppercut. He has a good uppercut. He has a good uppercut. He has a good uppercut (Repeat Mantra until I reach Lennox Enlightenment)

 

I love Holyfield for his style, and his ability c.1990.
But, yeah, I question his credentials in the all-time ratings as much as I question Lewis's. I seriously doubt Holyfield is higher than number 10, if that, and as much as he personified fighting spirit he just dont cut it.

But difference is, there aren't many people here on ESB classic spouting that Holy needs to be top 5 all-time heavyweight. In fact, he's often outside the top 10, or behind Lewis AND Tyson.
Anyway, I can watch a fight like Holyfield-Cooper and appreciate some pretty amazing combination punching. And certainly Holyfield-Foreman, and since no one's even saying Holyfield is "top 5 for sure", then I can appreciate his style AND agree with his rating.
With Lewis I will probably NEVER appreciate his style, and his over-inflated rating is magnified by how crap he looks.

 

Well, I'm working on the assumption that Holyfield was his best opponent, and seeing as Lewis beat him (on a fair scorecard) 9-3 then it's got to be a damn good example of Lewis's ability and style. Esp. when it comes to judging him against the all-time best, or imagining his ability in fantasy match-ups with those all-time fighters.

 

What's embarrassing (for those who prop this man up as top 5 all-time) is Lewis's habitual backing away and utter failure to ATTEMPT to knock Holyfield out, despite having him hurt and on the ropes.

If you watch the 5th round, and the 7th, and if you're honest with yourself you will see where Lewis is incredibly lacking in the area that may have made this a glorious and classic win for him to demonstrate "greatness".

Obviously, I suspect you will watch it and see I'm right and STILL persist in the ritual of denial.

If you listen to what Steward says to Lewis at the end of the 6th, you can make up your mind whether you agree or not. Steward was quite clear that he thought Lewis had the PHYSICAL equipment to KO Holyfield at any given time, and he clearly felt Holyfield was there to be taken.
Steward must have been watching the same fight as me. I can only conclude that Lewis lacked another ingredient.

Relatively speaking, yes. Ali near his worst looks crap but surprising entertaining, it's a great fighter putting on a sloppy circus exhibition.

Lewis at (or near, agree?) HIS BEST just looks not at all great. It's a good fighter who painfully falls short of greatness.

Go for it.
But I think you need to sort out the Lewis issue first, I suspect you have his crapness clogging up your top 5. :good

 

I said I'd rather watch Ali v Wepner, I'm not claiming that Ali and Wepner were better that night than Lewis and Holyfield were in their fight.

I'd rather watch Ali loaf around and Wepner do what he does, and enjoy the brief bits where Ali turns it up a bit and shows some of that speed that makes him great.
I know what I'm getting, and I know no one is telling me this is a great fighter putting on a great performance.

It's just an aside, and I thought it was fairly clear that I'm not saying Chuck Wepner was better than Lewis or Holyfield.

I'm not going to great lengths to "discredit" Lewis, I actually think the points I make and observations ARE WORTHY OF MENTION.

By objective criteria and general consensus I believe the first Lewis-Holyfield fight is considered his "best win" or a very strong candidate for "best win" at least.

Therefore it's remarkable that he was unimpressive in many ways, utterly failed to attempt to knock out a hurt man (which would have earned him a lot of credit), drops his hands and made amateurish mistakes, backed away and even seemed intimidated or at least very over-cautious.

It's not like I'm sifting through the Lewis catalogue to find a "bad performance", I'm picking what I feel is his actual best result. I actually give him A LOT OF CREDIT in the sense that he beat Holyfield, who I figure was the man to beat at the time, and I'm making no excuses there (and in fact it was you who mentioned " I think prime Holyfield would have beaten him" - isn't that DISCREDITING him ?).

I'm just pointing out that Lewis was deeply FLAWED in this fight, in my opinion at least.
If anyone has a different take then they can share it. I think most people who watch the incidents I refer to (and I could present more) would agree that I make fairly accurate observations.
And it's arguably LEWIS'S BEST WIN.

Interestingly, AT THE TIME it was rightfully seen as an impressive performance from Lennox Lewis (helped along by the bad decision and ensuing sympathy), but AT THE TIME no one was talking about Lewis as "top 5 heavyweight of all-time", so it was actually very good from the perspective of our expectations of Lennox Lewis.

Judged from the perspective of Lewis being considered by our resident experts here as "top 5" "top 4" or "top 3" (and all the other hyperbole), and judged from the perspective that this is indeed his best (or one of his best) wins, THEN A HIGHER STANDARD AND HIGHER EXPECTATION IS REQUIRED.