K2 Brothers vs The Brown Bomber

I'd say Wlad vs. Louis is close to 50-50, Vitali might have more of an advantage. Vitali was just so durable and tough at his peak that I'm not sure Louis would even be able to chop him down.

 

I think he goes 0-2. His best chance is against Wlad because Wlad's chin could be cracked. But he's going to have all hell in closing the distance on a fleet footed giant like Wlad with his own plodding footwork. I'd expect a typical Wlad fight where he fights at long range and hangs like a curtain over Louis anytime Louis gets close. With a decent ref that shuts down that sort of BS Louis chances go up but he's still marching uphill.

Against Vitali I think Louis is gonna have mission impossible. Vits' chin is as good as they come and his own offense is educated enough to ensure that he will be landing his own. Louis' own chin has a few question marks and I can't see him winning a grinding fight against a much much bigger man who probably has a higher workrate.

 

Realistically there is just a certain amount of evolution to take into consideration, here. But I will take Joe Louis out of respect.

 

Wlad would, if nothing else, clinch his way to win (Povetkin).
Vitali's chin says Joe Louis would lose.

 

Vitali’s toughness is as ordinary for the 1940’s as it gets. That’s his sole standout quality & it was era-dependent. Louis carves that plodding buffoon up. Never seen a more highly rated robot arm punching amateur than Vitali.

 

What evolution? Be specific. I assume you mean nutrition - you cannot possibly call what either Klitschko did in a ring more, “evolved” than Louis…?

 

Whenever evolution is brought up I think of Arthur Abraham who was good but not exactly Gene Tunney.

 

I don't think there is, not in this case. Those years had an immense talent pool and as I like to call it an army of hungry, desperately dedicated culturally enthralled by boxing soldiers, who would spend majority of their free time on gyms just waiting for an opportunity. Robinson, Armstrong, Moore, Charles, Saddler, Pep and the likes all operated around the time, with no ABC belts and less classses, meaning the top of the top was actually produced in a crucible of clashing elites. An argument could be made boxing experienced immense degradation because of its loss of the inside fighting. I'd say it evolved in certain ares, whilst devolving in others.

 

Take a look at the scale of thumping Carnera - who gets laughed off stage by most here - took vs Baer, & tell me Vitali was capable of anything more Rocky-esque.

 

Carnera actually broke his ankle if I recall correctly. If he'd had any sense he'd have retired from the fight. Forget about the freak accidents and find me the 1940s fighter that never touched canvas.

 

He should have retired? You mean like Vitali Balboa did vs Byrd? There is nothing special about Vitali Klitschko. That which appeared special, is simply ordinary in a tougher time period. Do you think the damage he took against Lewis is unique? Have you seen Arturo Godoy’s face after his rematch with Louis?

He was an arm punching plodder. Wlad got all the talent in that family, save for taking a punch or a beating.

 

I think sports in general have evolved, and most would agree that the elites from yesteryear might not be so today. For example, most people wouldn't have Jesse Owens blowing away the field in the 100m in any recent Olympics, or Red Grange being an elite Running Back today, or Jim Thorpe winning any recent Decathlon, or Ty Cobb batting >.400 in a season vs. today's pitching, or ANY pre-1955 NBA player even making a roster today. Skill levels have gone through the roof over the years in most sports (or some, anyway). Any measures of strength or speed have seen records broken continuously over the years. What sport had bigger, faster, stronger, more skilled athletes pre-1950s than it does now? Probably none.

Has Boxing evolved as much as other sports over the past 70-100 years, especially in the Heavyweight division? Looks that way to me. Wlad, for example, is WAY more skilled, athletic, and is noticeably faster than other big men from Louis' era, such as Abe Simon & B. Baer. Probably hits harder as well. He's also excellent at keeping smaller guys like Louis at bay with the jab and straight right. Not saying Louis can't beat them, but the Klitschkos present a far different set of problems than Louis was used to dealing with back in the day. I think either Klitschko probably dominates the 30s/40s era of Heavyweight boxing in place of Louis. I'm not as confident Louis could do the same around the 1990s/2000s.

 

I would never claim that Vitali doesn't have the best ability to take a concussive type of shot without getting put on the canvas or doing the stanky leg, out of the three. That said, durability isn't just that, and I do think Vitali's durability is oversold because his injury-prone body is underappreciated, and his lower skin durability is underappreciated. Neither of those things are in the league of his single-punch-storm-weathering ability and they're both lowering the average of all the types of durability you need in a ring. Louis is the favourite for me, and I lean toward him really putting a hurting on Vitali and surviving a skillfully placed mega-bomb or two from Wlad before taking him so far out of his comfort zone that he can't make it without a 2015 referee on his side with the clinching.

Wlad has a very high mental strength that relates to discipline, but a very low mental strength in terms of thinking his way out of an exchange that can panic a hurt fighter. The things he does to get out of it are not examples of clear pugilistic thinking. It's a shallow hug and pray strategy. The ability to circle and counter out of situations like that? The ability to make clinches so short a referee has very little of the situation on him to remedy, and punch in and out of clinches? Put him back then, with the HW title on the line and see if he can do the same thing, with the same skill set, against Joe Louis. The size arguments for Wlad are not selling me here. If Wlad never gets hurt and panicked, okay, he has the mental strength to never allow Louis into the fight for more than a few seconds after landing something serious...but I don't see Louis not hurting him at some point or Wlad not getting quite panicked, and trying to wet blanket Louis, and failing to be allowed to do so. Is "panic" really a fair way to frame this? I don't know. With respect to Wlad, I can't really think of a better way to frame it that is accurate to my thinking. The point is Louis will land and when Louis lands, I expect Louis finishes. It's what I would say versus about virtually all the other great heavyweights, regardless of size or fandom or eras or anything else.

Do you remember Foreman yelling "Ewww, he broke his leg!" at the time? Foreman was a young and excitable commentator at the time.