Kabayel V Big George Foreman

Man, I'm a big fan of Del Boy, but levels...he might have been a similar size but fights nowhere near the same style. Old Foreman didn't fight at a pace but he fought at his pace and set lots of traps, manhandled his opponents, lots of pushing, holding the biceps, sneaky inside and check punches. I don't think Kabayel gets in the right range to land those deconstructing body shots because George controlled that space very well. I suspect Kabayel's desire to get in close and fight his fight is his undoing whereas against young George it's a blessing...

 

If you're correct, then I have no idea how to explain the Alex Stewart fight.

 

Why do we have to explain it? If we are talking fantasy match ups, we are surely comparing the best version, the unicorn version, v the best version. I'm not sure what the best version of Agit looks like...yet. But the best version of Old Foreman...maybe the one who lost too Holyfield, beats the best I've seen of Kabayel yet...in my opinion. Others disagree and that's cool.

We don't judge Ali on Spinks, Berbick and Holmes do we..?

 

Because it was the same Foreman who fought Stewart. And BTW he lost unanimously to Holyfield who was notorious for making lesser fighters look capable.

I'll assume you'd also pick Cooper of the Holyfield fight to beat Kabayel and erase the rest of his career.

 

You are "essentially" dodging my question and attempting to save face with insults because you're a coward who won't stick to his guns after making a claim.

 

I can agree with this.

In addition to all that, Foreman was basically trying to kill his opponents once he saw them hurt, scowling and aiming for sensitive areas like the temple, jaw, kidneys, etc. He wanted to inflict as much pain as possible and often did so despite his sometimes crude and wide swings due to his underrated accuracy. If nothing else, he knew how to bludgeon someone into the canvas and was a much better finisher than Zhang. Foreman was also much more physical employing shoves, framing, and keeping things at a rough pace up close and personal.

So yes, it's possible Zhang could generate more force behind his punches with his greater weight and mass, but their styles and approach were quite different. Against Kabayel, Zhang was much more conservative and "boxing" a bit more than what would happen with either version of Foreman. Zhang has a much lower punch output (likely to save stamina) and shortens up a lot of his punches going for clean power rather than debilitating power. Had he loaded up for that right hook he dropped Kabayel with, it might not have even landed in the first place or Kabayel may have been able to brace himself or roll with it. Foreman made an art of using wider swings to get more leverage and power.

Kabayel getting off the floor and surviving Zhang doesn't necessarily mean he could survive Foreman. It would've been a totally different story since Foreman was like a shark smelling blood the instant he knew his opponent was hurt and was a better finisher than Zhang.

 

NoNeck does that for boxers he hates, but has 2 quadrillion excuses for boxers he likes when it comes to bad performances. Then all of a sudden he cares about context and logic.

As this thread shows, he doesn't even stick to his own criteria.

 

Zhang has a chin to rival Chuvalo. Doesn’t mean he’s tough like Kabayel.

 

Big George would eat that kebab up with some buffalo wings on the side.

 

I'm afraid I don't subscribe to this way of thinking. The Foreman who fought Holyfield was not the same gighter who fought Stewart. You can't stand in the same spot of a river twice. And what does Bert have to do with this discussion, that's another discussion for another day if we are bringing Cooper v Kabayel into it? In my opinion, and its only an opinion, the version of old George who lost to Evander would thump Kabayel, on what I've seen so far. That said, I know what Foremans ceiling is, I don't know what Kabayels is...yet. A fighter can fight several times in a year and look different, better, worse each time. For me, the best possible version of old George beats the best possible version of Kabayel, BUT Kabayel can go on and improve, George can't, which makes this conversation a moveable feast which we must return to every time we fancy a nibble.

Interesting chat man, thanks for your thoughts.

 

These people are ridiculous, when ever a fighter now does the slghtest thing they jump on on their bandwagon and act likethey are ATG. You see how overhype Tyson Fury for beating barely beating a 40 year old Wladimir K and how they overhype Usyk for beating Anthony Joshua after Andy Ruiz beat him first and then him beating Fury? Now Usyk is this untouchable mega star.

First let explain this. Kabayel isn't a natural 240 pounder just like Fury, Joe Joyce, Zhang, Bakole, Andy Ruiz etc aren't the weight they come in the ring weighing. These guys now days are just in poor shape. Foreman actually did weigh 230 as amateur and fought in a era where guys came into the ring light because it was what guys did back then. For example Ken Norton used to walk around weighing 230-235 but would get to as low as 205 pounds for his bouts. He was talking about this years ago doing a weigh in betweem himself and Ali on the Johnny Carson show.

2nd Zhang is extremely slow, even slower than old Foreman, Zhang clearly can't take a body punch. Jerry Forrest had Zhang hurt with body punches years ago and almost stopped him. Foreman on the other hand was hit by vicious body punches by Evander Holyfield, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs and more and didn't seem bothered at all.

3rd Zhang just like most fighters today aren't very busy. Joseph Parker only landed around 90 punches against Zhang and Zhang landed less. To put this too perspective Foreman landed 180 punches against Holyfield, a prime Holyfield when Foreman was 42. Foreman landed 225 punches against the extremely talented , hard punching Tommy Morrison when Foreman was 43, 249 punches against Axel Schulz a mover who was 26 years old, and 280 and 290 punches against Shannon Briggs and Lou Savarese. Zhang just isn't busy. He is in so poor shape that he can't go more than 3 or 4 rounds without gassing out.

4th Kabayal barely beat Chisora a few years back. Him beating some overrated hype jobs doesn't make him a world class elite fighter or somebody who should be being compared to ATG fighters. Kabayel couldn't beat old Foreman, he would get stopped pretty easily and a younge Foreman would beat him even easier.

As you said "Jeesh".
These people are ridiculous. Every time a fighter does the slightest thing now they get over hyped.

First off Kabayel isn't a 240 pound guy. Just like Andy Ruiz , Tyson Fury, Zhang. Joyce aren't the weight they come ring weighing. These guys are just out shape. Foreman was a 230 pound guy as a amateur who came into the ring light.

Second Zhang is slow, easy to hit and can't take a body punch. Foreman was hit with vicious bodyshots from Shannon Briggs, Holyfield, Tommy Morrison etc without being bothered.

3rd Old Foreman was landed between 225 to 290 punches from the age of 43 to 48 against guys like Schulz, Morrison

 

i agree. Kabayel is carrying at least 20 lbs of unnecessary blubber. He is a good fighter. But the hype is extreme every time. Jesus.

Great points all round. Agreed with everything you said.

 

Lol

 

It's embarrassing at this point and he thinks people don't realize.

 

It's what happens when you think you're smarter than everyone else and lack self awareness. Terrible combination of traits.