Kazuto Ioka: top 15 all time south of bantamweight already?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jun 19, 2019.



Is he top-15 all-time sub-bantam?

Poll closed Sep 27, 2019.
  1. Yes.

    7.7%
  2. No, but a win in the Nietes rematch puts him there.

    30.8%
  3. No, lots of work to do (unify super fly, etc)

    53.8%
  4. No, beyond reach.

    7.7%
  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    If you don't follow the modern fly range, you've missed out seeing the rise of a wondrous technician.

    • Amateur record: 95-10, 64 by KO/RSC (that's crazy high, if you don't follow amateur boxing, especially considering he fought in the headgear era, before it was banned in men's senior open-class)
    • Pro record: 24-2 (14) as of this morning, when he claimed a world title in his fourth weight class.

    He is 15-2 with ten knockouts in world championship bouts, and hardly any of those were creampuff opponents (a few have continued to contend for several years since he fought them; victories over the likes of Akira Yaegashi and Félix Alvarado in particular aging like fine wine). Yes, seventeen of his twenty-six professional bouts have been for world titles...just shy of ⅔ of his career. Both of his losses were via SD, and both against complete & utter pains in the ass (unbeaten Thai stylist Amnat Ruenroeng, and Pinoy future HOF lock Donnie Nietes).

    IMO he's on the bubble...

    Finito López
    Rosendo Álvarez
    Ivan Calderón
    Jorge Arce
    Jung Koo Chang
    Myung Woo Yuh
    Michael Carbajal
    Little Dado
    Jimmy Wilde
    Santos Laciar
    Chocolatito González
    Johnny Tapia
    Sung Kil Moon
    Khaosai Galaxy
    Gerry Peñalosa


    ...and that's, of course, still leaving plenty of greats on the table, but IMO he has clearly surpassed all but the above.
     
    roughdiamond likes this.
  2. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    I'd say so. Man. The rematch with Nietes will be one of the most important legacy defining fights of the decade. Huge implications. Both are clear HOF but the winner becomes a generational great.
     
  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    There are still other ATGs to account for, such as Pascual Perez etc. before saying he is a top 15. IMO he wouldn't be at this time, but close from what I know of him.

    I'm gonna go with the option of beating Nietes = top 15. However, I am not so knowledgeable on Ioka, although he looks great H2H. Are there any links to his bout against Palicte?

    Any bouts you would recommend me watching?
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  4. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    I will also say I could rank him above Lopez already. I think Ricardo is massively overrated.
     
  5. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I mean, there are a lot greats who fought south of 115, so if I say no, it's not a knock on Kazuto. But, a rematch win over Nietes and a further win over a guy like Estrada or SSR would put him in the discussion.
     
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Any glaring omissions you see on my (admittedly hastily cobbled together) list that you think definitely merit a spot ahead of Kazuto?
     
  7. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’d argue Estrada is better than him but Ioka has been excellent. Nietes I would say is better too.

    Gilberto Roman for sure I’d put higher up than most of those guys too.
     
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  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Estrada vs. Ioka would be a dream, h2h currently I'd tip it about 50-50 but that's with El Gallo being in his prime and Kazuto a bit past his own (despite being only a year older and debuting around the same time...Ioka has walked a tougher road and been in more wars, even with a nod to JFE having seen his share). In terms of résumé I'd say Estrada has the biggest single notch in his belt (Wangek II) yet Ioka's body of work dwarfs his. I mean, twice as many world title bouts (and only the pair of tight losses) - 15-2 versus 7-2...
     
  9. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'd put Ioka ahead of Rosendo Alvarez. I really like El Bufalo, but I don't think he has the resume to make Top 15, and you can only get so much mileage out of a loss and draw to Finito.

    But...

    Of those currently not on the list that need to be surpassed, I would list the following:

    Midget Wolgast
    Frankie Genero
    Gilberto Roman
    Fidel LaBarba

    as names that would need to be surpassed for sure. Maybe throw in Jiro Watanabe, too.
     
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  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Ioka vs. Palicte:
    This content is protected


    His domestic clash with Yaegashi was a FOTY candidate in 2012. His performances versus Gemelo Alvarado, Reveco I & II, Arroyo, Navarrette and Torito Rodríguez were all master classes against serious contenders.

    Most of his victories over Thais are, while dominant, not particularly meaningful - most boxers from that country in modern times have ridiculously inflated records. Stamp, Wissanu, Kwanthai & Noknoi all look pretty on paper but none had ever beaten anybody worth a damn. Oleydong Sithsamerchai (aka Kittipong Jaigrajang) is the noteworthy exception (along with, obviously, Ruenroeng who beat Ioka), he was actually world class, and was a huge leap up for Ioka, who really had no business in a world title bout at 6-0 graduating directly from a vacant Japanese title grab.
     
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  11. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Interested to see where @Flea Man would place him roughly.
     
  12. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’m hoping they get it on sometime this year. It will be great to watch as would Estrada-Nietes.

    Estrada holding unified titles at flyweight was a big deal (as was Ioka unifying with Yaegashi) and his strong stand vs. Chocolatito carries a lot of weight for me.

    Both fantastic fighters.
     
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Mark Johnson, Darchinyan, and Donaire were all better...don’t have time to look at resumes atm.
     
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Big fan of Too Sharp, but can't agree there.

    Raging Bull was KTFO in his prime, and would be stylistically tailor-made for Ioka h2h.

    Flash hasn't fought south of bantam in nearly a decade - you sure you're limiting yourself to his work before moving up in that assessment?
     
  15. Rock0052

    Rock0052 VIP Member Full Member

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    Is it just me, or does Chevalier look like Mini Me on HGH?