Ken Norton: "my normal weight is 225-230 and i train down to 206"

If Fury had a good trainer who cracked the whip on his lazy training habits he'd be 275lb of muscle instead of flab ...

 

But realistically he wouldn't be 205 pounds in modern era and BCS8 was trying to imply Norton was a small Heavyweight "soaking wet at 205 pounds" which is not true.

Norton was a well built Heavyweight naturally bigger than someone like Usyk with a longer reach and more power.

 

I was implying this:

Muhammad Ali 212 lbs beat Ken Norton 205 lbs by SD in round 12 of 12

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Ken_Norton_(2nd_meeting)

 

Shucks, that is probably the origin of his chin problems. That will leave you fragile.

 

I don't think Classic is ready for Obese Ali vs Dustin Nichols "The Thunder Down Under" showdown

 

Possibly you have put your finger on it. There's a fair bit of evidence I believe that one of the reasons why Foreman's chin improved so much in the 90s is because he stopped dehydrating himself and sapping his stamina like that.

 

That would probably require a horse dosages of Tren, but oh boy would that be a sight to behold. Might rival the legendary calf-lifting, jeep-pulling old timer strength.

 

We just seem to clash on alot of subjects TBH it is what it is but he just seems to aggravate me and I'm just being honest but it is what it is personality sometimes clash.

 

I can be an aggravating dude

 

It's fine I don't hate you or anything like that it's not that deep it's just a personality clash it happens all good.

 

He's big enough and has power, so I don't see why it matters that much

 

There's no 'partly' about this particular circumstance really.

If Norton is as strong when weighing in at 205 as he is at a hypothetical 230, then his weight has nothing to do with how he'd cope with a c. 265lb Fury. If, on the other hand, Norton is indeed made weaker by training down to 205 then, of course, it is a factor. But there's no evidence to suggest Norton was weak at 205.

(In a slightly different slant, one might float the notion that Norton's extra poundage could have an effect on Fury - but to what extent and at what cost to Norton's mobility, speed, and stamina, etc?)

There's also a fair bit of assumption in the suggestion that, by dropping down to 205, Norton was losing 'functional weight'.

205 Norton was able to go 12-rounds with Ali and split the cards (with some believing Norton deserved the nod). This doesn't seem to indicate he had inadvertently engaged in self-sabotage. Norton's endurance, cardiovascular health, flexibility, and stamina seemed to be tip-top during his second bout with Ali - and this was probably the more physical bout.


Weight does not equate to size. Nor does it equate to strength.

 

I'm pretty sure all Usyk did to move from CW to HW was to stop that before-fight shred cycle (and not dehydrate of course). He fights at ~225, and it looks like that's his walk around weight. Was probably always his walk around weight.

He'd probably lean out to 210-215 or so prior to a fight, then dehydrate down to 200 to make weight. Now he just doesn't do any of that. Probably makes camp a hell of a lot less miserable when you can actually eat. Some of these guys must go through absolute misery in camp -- I'm thinking of Hamzah Sheeraz, recalling reading how he can only eat one meal a day in camp to make weight. Dieting down is one thing. Doing it while busting absolute ass in training is an entirely different thing.

 

A lot of these old timers were mammoths out of the ring, Sullivan and Jeffries often scaling over 250. Fitzsimmons was 202 pounds when he went on an exhibition tour with Jeffries in 1902-03. Even Corbett looked pretty huge out of camp, all of these guys including Ali, Norton, etc would likely be bigger under modern rules. Especially if roids allow them to maintain cardio and speed at that size.

 

I disagree.

Usyk is reported as being 207lbs on fight night at CW.

Zurdo has been reported as 204lbs on fight night at LHW. That 29lbs weight gain is an extreme and uncommon example, but demonstrates a fighter being 7lbs heavier on fight night relative to weigh in is not indicative of an extreme weight cut.

I'm typically 3lbs heavier at night than in the morning. Usyk would have been taking in calories on fight day ahead of the fight and, unlike his body had become accustomed to during training, not burning them off. I suspect c.200lbs is his morning weight when in natural fighting shape.

Usyk's clearly added muscle to get 220lbs. I suspect that when he retires, he will start to look smaller, as Holyfield, Moorer and Haye did post retirement.

Whereas HWs pre 70s typically look bigger post retirement, which was kind of the crux of the OP in this thread.