Ken Norton or Wladmir Klitschko- Who ranks higher?

In the end, Norton got knocked out by every big puncher he´s faced. Wlad is up there with them and would do the same. Norton was at best the 4th best hw of his era, while Wlad was the best of his. Admittedly, Norton´s era was better but not enough for it´s 4th best hw to be ranked above the best of any other era. Sorry.

But yeah, of course because I´m German, I´m a fan of the Klitschkos and blablahblah. You know, if you want to be taken serious you should stop with this bs. That´s for kids. Bring up arguments or stfu.

 

Wlad doesn't have the same killer instinct that foreman and shavers had. basically they backed norton up and had him on the run with inside fighting and wild bombing. By the way, norton was very badly past his best vs cooney and shavers. Foreman is the only legit loss. and foreman wouldve done the same to wlad. and why are you apologizing? Norton is a live shot here, and we're talking about fantasy matches. Like any of this **** is written in stone

Basically your argument Is this. Wlad hits hard, norton got KO'd by foreman, wlad beats norton. well its not that easy. The styles of foreman of wlad and foreman are much different. wlad hardly throws the right hand in the first couple of rounds. usually just pumps the jab and throws hooks. Norton is eventually going to time him and get to him. Nevermind in the late rounds when norton is going to be full of confidence.

Norton would show him a vicous body attack and beat the **** out of wlad. even on he outside that **** is close. Norton jabs with wlad once wlad jabs, and counters with bombs. On the inside, forget it. Wlad has no inside game and no uppercut. he doesn't go to the body. He HIMSELF can't take a shot. You're talking about norton's chin even though norton has been stopped by bigger punchers and would never lose to the likes of sanders, puritty, or Brewster. I could definitely see wlad losing to norton's opponents.

I'll take norton by late stoppage or TKO.

 

It's strange because i think Norton would win a fight between the two, i consider Norton to have a better resume, but i still think Wlad is better go figure, it's close

 

At this point, I'd have to say Wlad.

For starters I give credit to fighters who dominate; its the reason why I have Louis above Ali in my rankings.

1. Neither fighter was lineal champion really. Although Norton was recognized as the linear champion going into the Holmes fight and some would argue that Wlad technically is the champ now but then with Vitaly in the picture its pretty much anyone's guess.

2. Wlad has many bumps in the road but he's proved in the past 5 years that he's best out of the bunch that is currently fighting. Unlike Norton, Wlad is dominating this group of B-C level fighters.

Norton never had a moment in the Heavyweight division where he was the dominant fighter. In fact, he never really had a reign and he never came within top 3 of his own Era where he falls behind Ali, Frazier and Foreman.

3. Norton's resume:

Top 5 wins:

Ali
Young
Quarry
Bobick
Stander
Cobb

Wlad's resume:

Top 5 wins:

Byrd I
Peter I
Chambers
Brewster
Chagaev

I think it's pretty clear that the better signature wins belong to Norton with Ali being a solid example. But Wlad has been far too consistent and Norton simply doesn't have enough marquee names in his W column to eclipse the consistency that Wlad has shown.

If the two were to meet in the ring it would be an interesting scrap, Norton has talent and athleticism to beat Wlad but his chin may be a liability given Wlad's punching power. If they fought 3 times neither man would win all 3.

Bottom line:

Being a participant in a strong division shouldn't overtake being the man in a weak division because you are punishing them for their date of birth not their accomplishments.


Also note:

The only the thing that Wladimir has failed to do is unify OR stand alone as the unified lineal undisputed champion. Wins over Vitaly and David Haye would change that. Until that happens it will continue to stifle his legacy.

 

I agree. I don't see Norton having a walk on the park with wlad either. I do think he beats him. The resume is only close because wlad has the more impressive reign. Norton has Cobb, young, ledoux, ALI, Young, a close fight with primed ATG Holmes, And Bobick.

 

Like Arthur Mercante, I had a left arm impaired Holmes winning eight of the first ten rounds over an aging Norton. Stop that match after ten rounds, and you will see utter dominance by Holmes. There's no way that one should have been even on the cards after 14. When Ken upset Ali, he was greatly aided by Muhammad's neglect of an impacted wisdom tooth, which the footage indicates was inflicted in round two. In retrospect, many pundits opined that Norton's greatest performance was Ali II, a match Muhammad is generally credited with pulling out with a gutsy final round after sweeping the opening several stanzas. (I think a case might be made that Ken was better for JQ, where his jab and accuracy were razor sharp. He had wanted Jerry for years, and it showed.)

Wlad has been stopped three times, but he did avenge the last of those, and hasn't been halted in over half a dozen years. Pac has been stopped twice, was defeated more recently than Wlad, yet doesn't get anything remotely resembling the same stick. (Wlad has never been dropped for the count, and quickly got to his feet after the last knockdown by Sanders. Manny got counted out both times he was halted.) Regarding lingering questions about his chin, Wlad may well be like Pedroza, who looked extremely vulnerable in 1976 after three bad knockout defeats, then was never stopped again in 32 fights spanning the next 16 years, becoming a record setting ATG FW champion in the process. (As near as I can tell, he was only dropped by Gerald Hayes, McGuigan and Edgar Castro after 1976, all when he was past 31, no spring chicken for a featherweight in the classic championship round era.) I suspect Wlad's earlier experiences running out of gas taught him to keep up his conditioning, and there can definitely be a conditioning factor in being able to take one on the chin. (See Michael Spinks-Eddie Davis. Eddie did not have a great chin, except in this one, and it was all due to great conditioning and preparation, both physical and mental.)

Bobick walked through Holmes in the amateurs after Nick Wells destroyed Larry twice, and Cassius Clay looked like a stiff breeze could blow him over before the Liston shocker. Sometimes, punch resistance and resilience can and does improve, and even if not, increased skill and experience can compensate. It never happened for Norton though. Ringsiders who saw what Foreman did to him in Caracas saw the same "This guy can hurt me!" deer in the headlights expression when he got hit by Shavers. And, moments before getting stopped, Jerry Quarry did buckle him, just as Johnny LoBianco was moving in to call a halt in Norton's favor. (LoBianco immediately retreated from between them to give Jerry one more chance at a rally. There are some real questions about what might have happened between them in a prime for prime showdown, if an exhausted Jerry could buckle his knees on the brink of being stopped himself.)

 

Yeah i agree

 

Well thats a period of 10years for Norton your saying he's 4th best, in the last 10years we've had Lennox, Vitali, Haye, Holyfield, Tyson, Sanders, Toney, Jones Jr - obviously Wlad ranks above some of those but he hasn't beat any of them (not necessarily his fault) and Rahman has 2 wins better than any of Wlads (not that I rank him higher)

So I'm not sure Wlad is top2 of the past 10years...He's certainly not proven to be the best of his era, he needs a few more years at the top with the likes of Haye, Povetkin, Solis under his belt

For the record I think Wlad is the better/greater fighter, head to head Norton may well give him a run for his money if he gets into his grove

 

this, exactly this

 

:good

 

No, Wlad doesn´t have the killer instinct of Foreman and he doesn´t need to. What he does is worse. He puts physical and mental pressure on you for every second of every round. His jab would always be in your face and it was quite a bit better than Ken´s. His right hand and left hook would always be there and both are hard enough to knock Norton out. And he would no it. He would taste the power of it and it would take its toll mentally.

See, Norton had a great style against certain styles. But Wlad´s not one of those. Ken would trouble him in the beginning but after 4 rounds Wlad has figured him out, keeps him on the end of his jab for most of the time while moving forwad and not backward, backing Norton up, something he did not like, and this would make Ken fold, he would start to make more and more mistakes and one fo them would be too big.

:rofl:rofl:rofl

So funny that you mention guys like Jones Jr with one fight at hw, Toney who did exactly what at hw? Beating a nearly shot Holyfield? Holyfield, what did he do in this era? Going 1-1-1 against Ruiz? Losing to a former mw? Dragging a circus freak show to the edge but failing to push him oveR? Sanders did exactly what? One up-set win over Wlad? Tyson, are you serious? Lewis who was active 3 years in this decade? Haye? WTF? But of course you didn´t mention Ibragimov, or Chagaev who have more right to be there than any of those names but Lewis and Vitali. I smell an agenda here.

 

Wlad's one-paced upright style is perfect for Norton, you're delusional if you think he is a bad match-up for Norton. Wlad is essentially a poor man's Kessler with power

 

Color me delusional, then. The Kessler comparison is not very apt. Wlad is much more about controlling distance and pace, and possesses the great equalizers in a great jab and great right hand with which to dictate.

I would bet the farm on the fact he would find Norton's chin within 8.

 

I was going to make a post... then I saw people were actually saying Norton ranks higher than Wladimir Klitschko. I can't even deal with this tonight.

 

...You know Kessler has a fantastic chin, right?