Ken Norton - Top 15-20 Heavyweight?

i have in the 20-25 range so just outside.

 

Not sure on top 15 or even 20.


Would you rank Norton over these guys,

Louis
Ali,
Marciano,
Johnson,
Dempsey,
Jeff,
Sullvain(Not taking head to head into accout, historic impact, and what they mean in there era)
Fitz??
Gene Tunney ?
Max Schemling,
Max Baer,
Ezzard charles
Joe Walcott
Patterson
Liston
Foreman
Frazier,
Holmes,
Tom Sharkey
Peter Jackson
Tyson
Bowe???
Holyfiled.
Lewis
The Kilt brothers(Who at the time are ahead of Kenny imo)
Spinks perhaps?
Harry Wills
Sam Langford,


Sure perhaps cases can be made for Noton over a few of em, but for the MOST part no imo.

 

I bolded the 1s he has a case to be above (not that I'd rate him above all those). I'd certainly him ahead of a good few of them though, certainly ahead of the 1s underlined

 

I have trouble ranking him ahead of almost every one of those.

I'd have Norton ahead of Spinks, whose heavyweight resume just isn't all that, and maybe Fitz, but other than that? And how many names are that, like 25?

 

more like top 30

 

Bold I rank Norton over. Italics means maybe.

 

I would tend to say no.

Nortons record against Ali is verry impresive but if you take away his best win then the rest of his record in not that of a top 20 all time heavyweight.

Rather than being a great fighter across a range of types and styles of oponent he was essentialy a fighter who happened to have the right style to be a nightmare for Ali.

 

Most of the people you have ranked him over would almost certainly have made quick work of him.

 

And Holmes, arguably going 4-0 against both and these are arguably the no1 and no2 HWs in history

 

To play devils advocate:

A. He is actualy 1-3 against them.

B. While they were great fighters they both had a style that played to his strengths and forgave his weakneses.

C. How much would it actauly mean if he did beat Ali in the third fight?

And most importantly..........

D. What is his second best win and what did it mean at the time?

 

I wouldn't rate Norton among the great HWs. Outside of apparently having Ali's number, his resume is pretty weak. His biggest non-Ali wins are Bobick, Young, and a post-prime Quarry, which really isn't all that scintillating. In between, he suffered embarrassing KO losses to Foreman, Shavers, and Garcia, and a draw (albeit questionable) with LeDoux.

I wouldn't compare his resume to Frazier's; Frazier not only beat more standout contenders but beat them when they were at their peaks. Plus, he only lost to two fighters, both legendary HOFers and champions, and never was KO'd by just a so-so contender.

 

I'd say top 30 is fair.

 

A. On the scorecards Yes, on most fans scorecards hes not
B. Maybe, styles make fights
C. Allot for Norton, linear champ and 2-1 over Ali in a series
D. Probably Young which meant a world title, then Quarry

 

I wouldn't rate Norton over most of those guys. He may be on par with some of them, but a good many others I'd definitely rate him under.

To me, he was basically just a very good leading contender - not necessarily an ATG. I even thought putting him in the HOF was a slight bit questionable (although there's been plenty of less deserving fighters put in since then).

 

My exact sentiments