Ken Norton v. Rocky Marciano

I got balls the size of Church Bells..... I'd give Ken Norton a great chance of hammering away at Rocky Marciano... Despite Norton's chinny chin, Ken Norton was also a rock hard dude who fought between 200 to 220 pounds between his best years of 1973 thru 1978... This crap that Norton was old and aging at 33 against a 29 year old Larry Holmes is shear NONSENSE! Ken Norton was PUMPED / RIPPED for Larry Holmes in '78.... I just CANNOT see Rocky Marciano at 185 to 193 pounds being able to bully a physical guy like Ken Norton around.... And, let us not forget, Ken Norton owned good power himself....:tong

MR.BILL

 

Yes I want more.

I want to see Norton beat a genuinely world class puncher before I make him more than a live underdog against Marciano.

 

I think Norton out boxed and out punched Ali.

Maybe so, the the decison was horrible. Norton won it.

Huh? Did you mean the 2nd Ali vs Norton fight was very close. Norton clearly won the 3rd fight.

What I was trying to get at was Norton was a very good heavyweight boxer, capable of beating Ali and Young on points, and almost beating Holmes. IMO, Norton had better stuff as a heavyweight boxer than Charles did, partly based on a big size, reach and power differnce.

I think you're selling Norton short. He has wins over Quarry, Young, Garcia, Krikman, Bobick, and others, all of whom as a group were better heavies than the guys Charels beat at heavy.

You can not compare the talent level in the 70's, guys like Foreman, Ali, Holmes et all to the likes Charles meet in the 40's and 50's IMO, Foreman bounces Charles out of there, and Chalres doesn't beat Ali.

 

I can.

Archie Moore sid that Marciano was the strongest fighter he ever shared a ring with.

This is a guy who fought Nino Valdez, Bob Baker and Clarence Henry, all big heavyweights.

I will admit that it is hard to say who would shove who harder.

 

Those guys arnt in the same league as the guys Charles beat at heavy.

The only one who even belongs with Charlses best oponents is Quarry who was a shell.

 

You don't understand Italians. And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you 1/2 Italian? Sinatra and Marciano are household gods in every Italian household on the east coast of the U.S. and in satellite sections all over the U.S. That's just the way it is. And any guest who disagrees better duck and run for cover because everyone at the dinner table not only yells, but when provoked they'll hit and throws things too.

...
My culture hat is off.
...
Marciano's style is an acquired taste. In fact, he was a masterpiece in stone -only the sculptor wasn't Michaelangelo, it was Charley Goldman. And you got to squint to appreciate the handiwork. Angelo Dundee says that Goldman did the most "magnificent structural job" on Marciano than any trainer on any fighter -ever. Goldman's words when he was bringing Dundee to see his prospect: "--can't fight, stoop-shoulders, bald-headed, but oh can he punch."

Goldman was adamant about not giving a fighter something that he's not comfortable with or that he doesn't do naturally. Marciano was short. He made Marciano shorter. Marciano had his own balance, Goldman left it alone because he hit hard as hell naturally. Marciano was very strong and trained like a freak. He would have Marciano work the heavy bag from a full squat and then wing shots on the sides as he came up until the crescendo wallop at the end. Marciano learned to punch like hell coming up out of that crunch. That's serious leverage and in real terms it meant that Rocky didn't just hit hard 'for a man his size' -it meant that Rocky hit hard. Period!

You may not like Marciano's style, but that's probably because you are either biased or are not looking with a trained eye. He wasn't pretty, but that style had subtlety that you are missing. It was perfectly designed based on serious -though unexpected- raw materials. Rocky's foundation was thick. His legs were those of a power-lifter, his torso was a bit long and his arms were short. What looks to you like physical disadvantages was actually a set of streamline assets designed to maximize power thrusts in his shots. Goldman's gift was to make this so. Goldman took a natural right hand and matched it with a left -so Rocky had two "equalizers". He also shortened the shots. Marciano was built for and given a style for throwing hard shots all night. Someone said that watching him punch was like watching a contruction worker hurl cement slaps. It's true.

That conditioning of his is beyond comparison. He trained for over 5 months at least once -I think for Ezzard II, and was absolutely devoted. This gives him a real edge over what you see as superior talent. When you're exhausted and looking for the bell, believe me, your talent becomes less and less of a factor. Throw in that part of boxing that even many on ESB dismiss -that psychological edge. Floyd Patterson once observed that most fighters ask themselves "how far can I go? What is my limit? For Marciano, there was no limit."

I don't know if you have ever been in the ring, but I'll tell you from experience that these kinds of guys -the guys with preternatural strength, low foundations, supreme conditioning, never-say-die attitude, power, complete self-belief, and relentless are nightmares in long fights. They're nightmares I tell you. (Read: "I've been traumatized I tell you!"). Think about Cotto when he fought Margarito. Cotto will never beat Margarito and may now be on the decline after that one fight. These guys have a specialty -they take you to places where your humanity just doesn't want to go -the places where your lungs are screaming and your legs turn to lead, where your arms droop and you're praying for the bell. They... just... won't .....stop. It's like fighting Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees -you got to shoot them to get them off of you.

Don't feel too bad. Ray Arcel saw Marciano in sparring before he fought Ted Lowry and thought he was a "bum". He repented soon enough.

Repent, Rojo. Repent!

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Where's my gottamn

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?! Ah, there it is. Worship the image! Affirm your Italian heritage and BOW when you hear his name!

....(My culture hat is off)...

Or, simply reconsider your opinions.

 

stop this worship of false gods.

 

I'd like to hear you separate the two. If Rocky was great, how then is he overrated? Please -no hyperbole.

 

Incidentally, for those who care enough to know: There will be a 26 foot statue of Rocky Marciano going up soon at Brockton near City Hall. They did a poll of the citizens there and most would want it at Brockton High School outside of their football stadium ("Marciano Stadium") where it would serve as an inspiration to young athletes and students alike. The high school teams are called "the boxers".

The WBC almost gave it to Boston -which would have been a shame, but thankfully reconsidered when there was a hue and cry. Boston's Mayor Menino has been already trying to call Boston (on behalf of the guys who run around with leather in their armpits and the other guys who swing wooden bats) what Brockton has been called for decades: "the City of Champions" (Marciano. Hagler. 'Nuff said). That is nothing but a jerk move. Brockton, only a dozen or so miles outside of Boston, needs these uplifts and is far more worthy of both tributes.

 

Take a bow, man....Great post.:good

 

A very nice, touching and informative post..

A tad over the top at times though...

Jason Voorhees and Michael Myers? Jeeeeezzzzz........

 

**** man, I'm traumatized. There was this guy in the Boston YMCA on Huntington Avenue named Barry who took me to hell. We went round and round after hours when these outlaw trainers would come in and all of the restraints normally honored in sparring went out the window -no limit on rounds, no weight classes. New guys would be fed to lions.

He brought me to hell. I was urinating blood for a week and my ribs felt like cardboard tubing. I watched him for a week after that and realized something.... Barry couldn't see **** past the length of his arm. He was the real Mr. Magoo... badly near-sighted. So I started stepping back as he rushed (into the black beyond) and launching straight shots from beyond his vision and as he came in, it was too late to avoid them. His head sounded like a bell for about three rounds -ding! ding! DONG! Problem solved. But I still remember that first beating...

 

Christ, that doesn't sound like a nice way to spend a Friday night.. LOL...****.......

I applaud you for your guts to get back in the ring with a guy who made you **** red for a week though.

My sister was a teacher in Revere Mass. for two years. She said that it was kind of a rough, blue collar Italian hood. Ever been to those parts?

 

Never been to revere. I was in the north end the other night, "italian city"..best italian food you will ever eat in united states. 100% gauranteed. I used to go to brockton everyday for boxing training. I will have to checkout the new statue before I leave.

 

Don't applaud too much, I was in the ring with a man legally blind. And was dumb enough to fight a blind man's fight the first time...!

Yes, I have friends in Revere. Revere is pronounced "Reveah" over heah, with a sharpness on the second syllable. And the women there are known for big eighties style hair. Even now.