Ken Norton vs Luis Firpo

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    There has been a lot of ugly fighters that were still very dangerous. Juan Roldan was one. They crop up. Galento. They smashed guys up just the same.
     
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Middleton nearly beat Ken Norton anyway. The film of the fight shows a lot of rounds where Middleton seems to be outboxing Norton but exhaustion was getting to him around the time of a very hasty stoppage. The crowd booed the stoppage and cheered Larry Middleton.

    Middleton bust Joe Bugners jaw and took Quarry to a close decision that could have went either way. So he was pretty good. Better than given credit for.

    I still think Firpo is best avoided. He probably won’t deserve to go favourite against any great fighter, but the guy was so dangerous, a serious handful.

    I would keep Ken Norton well away from him. I’d keep Evandro Holyfield away from him!
     
  3. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Here were Dempsey’s comments after the fight:

    “He is game and the hardest puncher I ever faced. It was the first time I was knocked down since I became champion and I'll never forget it. I saw eight million stars when I got that punch on the chin that knocked me out of the ring. ... I didn't even know he had knocked me out of the ring until I came to on my stool between rounds. I thought I had been knocked out."
     
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    That's probably wise.

    He was a man of God after all
     
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  5. Hookandjab

    Hookandjab Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Firpo would steamroll Norton within a couple of rounds.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is the bottom line.

    If I was managing Norton, I wouldn't put him in with Firpo unless it was unavoidable!
     
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  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Firpo had a unique set of circumstances that gave him his 30 seconds of fame.

    -Most refs would have stopped it after the 3rd or 4th knockdown. Credit to Firpo for having the guts to get up but he was afforded more chances than 98% of boxers.

    -dempsey was off guard and going for the kill, who wouldn't be after that many downs. Most savage slugger types are open for counters when their opponent is that badly hurt. Norton would be cautious even after a knockdown.

    -Dempsey wasnt the same hungry tiger who captured the title.

    The stars were aligned for Firpo. In almost any other universe without those specific circumstances it would be "Dempsey KO1" and he'd be a minor footnote in heavyweight history. NONE of you would be talking about him or backing him against Norton. And if he fought in modern times you'd criticize how crude and sloppy he was.
     
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  8. Rope-a-Dope

    Rope-a-Dope Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I still feel that the Dempsey knockdown out of the ring shouldn't even have counted, or maybe been a DQ of Firpo. Doesn't look like a punch to me at all...he more or less shoved Dempsey out of the ring.
     
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  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    He certainly set about Firpo rather quick for someone who wasn’t hungry. He was on the hurry up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  10. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He was crude and sloppy. Everyone knew this in 1923.

    This bout for some reason is edited. Little snippets have been removed from most of the prints. As an example most remove the initial right hand Firpo lands seconds after the opening bell. First punch of the bout. It looks to me that Firpo was looking for this opportunity the way he jumps on that punch so quickly.

    Another snippet that is generally removed is of Dempsey hitting Firpo as he is in the midst of getting up from a knockdown. Usually enough is removed to take the “edge” off the foul.

    An observation is that the punch that put Dempsey on ***** Street is Firpos vaunted hammer like downward thrown right hand as he spun Dempsey mid ring. Devastating blow that caused Dempsey’s gloves to touch the canvas. This led seconds later to the volley of blows/pushes that put Dempsey out of the ring. I read eye witness quotes of those who saw Dempsey laying on his back outside the ring and they describe a nearly unconscious champion with his eyes rolling.

    Dempsey’s trainer stated what he saw from Dempsey that night left him gasping. He stated that once he was hurt in round one Jack transformed into the “old Dempsey” and it was incredible to watch. Dempsey began fighting in instinct.

    Years ago I read that Pathe France filmed the fight. My thought was what if in a Pathe vault somewhere was a pristine unedited film of this bout. I contacted them via a web site only to be told all they had were small fragments mostly of the crowds trying to get into see the bout. There must be somewhere the original copy of the film maybe just as edited but perhaps in better viewable condition.

    One final point is that I heard that Rickard had the film of this bout edited prior to public viewing.
     
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  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Firpo was something of a manufactured contender, but his resume doesn't only hang upon his losing effort against Dempsey.

    His win over Willard was not without merit.

    The past prime Willard was coming off a win over a live contender, and Firpo was the only person ever to put him down for the count!

    This was the fight that made him a big draw contender.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It would be great to see an unedited version. That film has always looked crudely edited
     
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So now people would advise holyfield to stay away from firpo? Comedy Central should fire their writers and hire some of the posters on this thread.
     
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The issue being he was an awkward fighter with tremendous power throwing blows from all angles. Firpo did not follow the boxing 101 rule book which only added to the danger of getting into the ring with him.
     
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  15. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ever heard of Mike Tyson? He threw powerful blows from all angles. Anyone who fought or sparred him said it was his erratic head movement and speed that was the real danger. You didnt know what to expect.

    Holyfield fought and beat that guy but choklab is saying he would've advised Holyfield to avoid Firpo? You guys are ****ing clowns.
     
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