Ken Norton vs Max Baer

Exactly could Braddock go 50+ rounds taking Ali or Holmes's best shots ? could Braddock whilst past his prime survive Shavers or Cooney ? would Braddock survive vs Foreman ?

I would say no to all of the above.

 

Why would Braddock not survive against Shavers when he beat better fighters?
He would be a pain for Foreman to deal with too.
Braddock's strategy for dealing with Baer would come in handy in a fight with Big George.
Just for the Baer fight, Braddock transformed into a Tommy Loughran type fighter, jabbing, retreating and clinching masterfully to shut down Baer.
People think that Braddock beat him on a fluke. He didn't. Loughran beat Baer and Braddock employed the same tactics to shut him down and out point him.
Braddock does not get bullied and blown out by Foreman.
If the man made a prime Louis retreat for nearly their entire fight, you best believe he gives Foreman all sorts of problems.

 

Baer would be my bet if he came into the fight in condition and serious, Max had the kind of power that would take Ken Norton out of his plan.

 

I think Norton was the "better fighter," but the cliche "styles make fights" is gospel truth, the "better fighter" doesn't always win, and I agree with those who say Baer was an atrocious stylistic matchup for Norton. He backs Norton up with one solid shot and Kenny is asleep on the canvas, quickly.

Of course if it's the full moon and Max is in one of his manic phases, all bets are off ...

 

Not impossible, but difficult to imagine when Braddock spent the lion's share of his career at Light Heavyweight.

Sure, people will point to the fact that he was only ever KO'd by Louis but then, other than Baer - his foil in the Cinderella Man story and his best win, by far - his Heavyweight resume is thin.

Braddock retired, sensibly so, aged 32.


Norton was operating in probably the greatest era of Heavyweights in boxing history, beating the greatest of all time and running him close (and controversially losing some would say) on two other occasions, as well as facing some of the biggest punchers the division has ever seen.

Of those, Foreman is the only one of them to meet a Norton who could be considered prime. Shaver's was catching a guy who'd thrown his Last Hurrah (against Holmes), was 35 and I think pretty much done. Cooney faced whatever was left of a 37 year old Norton (who wasn't that far off from his 38th birthday).


In any event, I think it is difficult to make reasonable comparisons between Braddock and Norton.

 

I assumed that nobody woudl dispute it to be honest.

Braddock had 75 fights, and only Louis ever really cracked his chin.

 

Yes, but not all of Braddock's 75+ bouts were fought at Heavyweight. The considerable majority of his bouts were against LHWs. His actual Heavyweight resume is a relatively thin slice of that career.

Why should I think Braddock fairs better in the 70s Heavyweight division than did, say, Bob Foster?

 

I get it that his heavyweight resume is a bit thin, but the people he did fight at heavyweight are more than enough to suggest that he was better suited to the division than Foster.

 

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced he was, based on what was a relatively brief spell of meaningful success - and the bigger point here is the level of quality in the division during the 70s being notably higher than that of the pre-Louis era.

Either way, the question should probably shift towards whether Braddock was better suited to the division than Norton and then, in turn, review Norton's chances of beating Baer.

I'd suggest they were excellent.

 

God help Norton if Baer catches him flush.

 

Norton was better suited to the heavyweight weight class than Braddock, but Braddock was better suited to taking on a guy like Baer.

 

And how do you think Braddock fares against Foreman?

 

Lasts longer than Norton did.

 

Feels funny to be on the same side as Man Machine for a change.

In my opinion it's beyond obvious that Norton is not only a visibly much better boxer than Baer, but that he did well in a tougher era too.

 

Yes.

Next question?