Ken Norton Vs Oleksandr Usyk

Well I think the much faster speedier version of Ali especially being faster on his feet,and being able to sustain that for much longer periods would have had less trouble with Norton.
I take your point however that Norton stylewise may always have been a problem for Ali.

 

He wasn’t much faster, that’s exaggerating the truth

 

I disagree.

 

Right now,,I find no reason to favor Usyk over Norton

 

It’s the excuse Ali fans use. Facts are, he was fighting better fighters in the 70’s

 

I agree he was.
It’s also a fact he was much slower especially of foot.
I don’t need any excuse for Ali in the seventies, it was actually in the seventies fighting those better opponents that he proved his greatness.

 

Lol, much slower ?? He comeback in his prime still, 27/28. Fury was out for the same amount of time at the same age roughly, not a mention of it damaging him.. If anything he could rest an recoup in that time

 

When did he beat Holmes? What evidence is there that sixties Ali couldn't pull away from him? Especially given that in the second fight, 70s Ali did. Then of course, you have the Young fight, where Young used similar tactics to Ali but didn't run out of gas (like Usyk wouldn't) and worked a nice left hook, a punch which Norton was always open to. But none of those guys fight like Usyk. At all.

Against Norton, Holmes, Ali and Young all circled left, as they did in most of their fights. Norton stood side on, holding his rear hand on his lead shoulder so he could parry jabs with his right and return with his left. He can't do that vs Usyk, as Usyk circles right, and jabs from a different position and at a different angle. Norton using his shell defence against Usyk would result in him not being able to see the shots coming. If he keeps turning to keep up with him, which is exactly what he would do, then Usyk is the one at an advantage. Norton can't throw power shots if he doesn't square up and if he squares up, Usyk won't be there. When you shuffle forward like Norton, and rely on out-jabbing a guy to force him back, you'll falter vs southpaws as your entire style becomes ineffective.

Norton isn't out-jabbing Usyk. And unless he starts making massive, unorganized and slopt strides or establishes lead-foot dominance, I don't see how he'll effectively cut the ring off.

Also, I don't know where the idea of Norton out-working him comes from either. Against Gassiev, his most passive performance, he threw 920 punches. 920. Against Huck and Głowacki, where he fights much more aggressively as the fight progressed he easily threw more.

 

The evidence is there with your own eyes what’s his age got to do with it?
He was out for nearly 4 years and in that time he hardly trained.
He was still a quick heavy when he came back but he couldn’t move on his toes over the stretch that he did prior to the break that’s blatantly obvious.
Anyway we’re off topic here you obviously have an agenda, for what it’s worth I’m not convinced at the moment that Usyk beats Norton, but I could be won round.

 

I agree. I’ve always wondered how Muhammad Ali of 1966-67 might have looked against Norton and Frazier and weather or not it would have effected the outcomes. The Ali of the 1970s was a bit wiser and more poised but did not have the lightening speed or stamina of the earlier model

 

Of course Ali was much faster in the sixties, what people are forgetting is Ali didn’t meet norton until his 43rd professional fight, that’s 43 training camps after being a pro for over 12 years and having around a 100 amateur fights And being out of the ring for years, all these things take a toll on a fighters speed , reflexes, legs etc. Especially if they are originally your main strengths, Of course fury was out for a similar time and at a similar age But has had 12-13 less fights and camps, so the question is will the likes of fury with another 12-13 fights and camps under his belt or AJ with another 20 fights really be winning or losing razor thin decisions against top 30 ATG fighters , that’s how far past prime Ali was in speed and wear and tear when he met norton, of course a 66-67 Ali fight would have been an bettter ALi outcome that’s just common sense isn’t it.?

 

Sorry, I worded that wrong, he pushed Holmes to the maximum. Gassiev was a huge style problem, he needs to set to throw and Usyk was way to good with his legs for that to happen. Made a monster look like f all because of it. The evidence that Ali couldn’t pull away from him is there to see, he arguably lost all 3 to Norton, a fighter that would’ve been Ali’s best opponent if they’d met in the 60’s. Imo Ali’s top 10 h2h, he had problems with fellas that could jab, Norton could match him in jab and the length of the jab too.

 

No agenda and yes Norton Usyk is a hard fight to predict, as I’ve said before on here Norton is great at fighting pure boxers, brilliant in fact.

 

I was wondering if the Chisora fight changed anyone's mind on whether Usyk could beat Norton, I thought a prime Norton would win but now think he'd ko Usyk fairly easily

 

Usyk would have boxed Norton`s ears off, different class, no contest and Norton wasn`t as tough or aggressive as Chisora is, he didn`t have the size or style to bully Usyk and Chisora cheated for the first 6 rounds v Usyk by stopping him moving to the right and getting angles to set up his shots, he held Usyk with his left hand.