Ken Norton: What if?...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by William Walker, May 13, 2020.


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  1. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    Norton didn't really freeze up against those guys. I think he overestimated his defensive prowess and attempted to ride their shots then got caught and couldn't recover. It's kind of like what happened to Byrd against Ibeabuchi (although Byrd was a superior defensive fighter than Norton).

    If Norton had got on his toes a bit more and stopped fighting out of that wide legged foot dragging stance he would have avoided a lot of punishment. That would have lessened his offensive options though so perhaps it was a tactical decision.
     
    It's Ovah, May 14, 2020
    It's Ovah, May 14, 2020
    #31
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  2. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    good
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    #32
  3. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    it is. Norton was a rough guy, and he was very durable, but unlike some of his contemplates like Foreman, Holmes, and Ali, Norton was human.
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
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  4. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    why didn't Jerry Quarry knock Norton out, then? or Larry Holmes for that matter? or Randall Tex Cobb?
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
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  5. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    a decent puncher, but he froze against the HUGE punchers. Norton did well against Quarry, Garcia, and Cobb, who were all big punchers, just not huge ones.
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    #35
  6. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Larry holmes never knocked out shavers neither,it was a late tko, like i told you ,he had stamina problems.
    Norton fought a shot quarry and shavers fought clearly a better version of Jerry. Anyway it has to do with styles too, you can land more shots against certain type of fighters. Another factor is that Norton had better skill than Shavers and better defence .
    This proves nothing. Every style is different, also quarry was a total shot when he faced Norton. Shavers also lasted the distance with Holmes once but he got stopped by tko Very late in another fight, Norton never fought Holmes twice.
    anyway according to your logic then Frazier and Norton had a better chin than Foreman because Ali could drop george but he could not drop kenny and Frazier(ridiculous) Or Frazier and Henry Cooper had more power than Foreman because they could drop Ali but Foreman could not.... The boxing is not 1 +1.
    Shavers and Norton had similar chin but kenny had better stamina so he could take a punch better in the later rounds. The chin of Shavers is underrated
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
    Charlietf, May 14, 2020
    Charlietf, May 14, 2020
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  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Tbh, I think Shavers chin was fine. It was his stamina that was the problem. He only got taken out by Lyle after tiring badly. The only time I ever saw him dropped before tiring, was against Quarry when hit with about 30 unanswered punches.
     
    swagdelfadeel, May 14, 2020
    swagdelfadeel, May 14, 2020
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  8. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree about styles. I'm just trying to make the point that Norton was not as chinny as you think. It all goes around. Jimmy Ellis outboxed Quarry, but lasted only two minutes vs. Shavers, who was knocked out in one by Quarry. I think the fact that Shavers knocked Norton doesn't make Norton chinny. Lots of good fighters got knocked out early by Shavers. Nobody ever calls Ellis, Young, or Bugner chinny. Norton wasn't either. He just wasn't so tough that he would come back after nearly getting KO'd.
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
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  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Ellis was shot against Shavers (granted so was Norton) and still almost had Shavers out.
     
    swagdelfadeel, May 14, 2020
    swagdelfadeel, May 14, 2020
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  10. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think Ellis was totally shot. He was in the post-prime stage again. While he would never legitimately be a top 5 contender again after 1971, he was still a experienced contender that a viewed as dangerous for Shavers, Bugner, and Lyle to face when they did, and he gave them all tough fights. But I agree, Jimmy peaked between '67-'71.
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
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  11. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think Norton was totally shot either, he had impressively knocked out Randy Stephens before he met Shavers. Stephens was unknown but looked like a good fighter against Norton. Norton also rebounded from the Shavers loss and LeDoux draw to win a very tough fight against Cobb. Again, Norton peaked from '73 to '78, the war with Holmes being his last peak fight imo, but I still thought he was dangerous for some time afterward.
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
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  12. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But i never called Norton "chinny". But obviously he did not have exactly the chin of Tua or chuvalo
     
    Charlietf, May 14, 2020
    Charlietf, May 14, 2020
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  13. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I definitely agree. If we had a chin scale, I would put Norton around 6/ 10. I think Shavers' chin was crappier than Norton's though.
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    #43
  14. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Ken Norton sparred with Joe Frazier on a regular basis from 1969-73 when Joe was champ. Admittedly he was knocked out the very first time against Frazier. Otherwise he gave Joe good w2ork. Sparring isnt exactly the same as a real fight but as far as freezing up or being fearful Joe Frazier would have cured that real quck.
     
    ETM, May 14, 2020
    ETM, May 14, 2020
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  15. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    well that is a good point. I still think it's no disgrace-Norton's knockout losses. Garcia was more experienced when they met, Foreman's power is awesome and certainly understandable that he lost, but Shavers and Cooney were disappointing losses because he never really recovered. How do you think the Norton of '73 to '78 would fare vs. '79 Shavers and '81 Cooney. I say it's very competitive. While Shavers could certainly replicate the Caracas Caper, I think Norton could stop Shavers if he concentrated and went for a 1st round knockout. I don't mean slugging toe-to-toe, I mean the way Ellis and Quarry did, bombing Shavers from the very beginning before Shavers could even warm up.
     
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    William Walker, May 14, 2020
    #45
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