Ken Norton Would Get Slept by Povetkin in Every Universe

Bob Hazelton a relative journeyman 180lbs or so started juicing up after his loss to George Foreman in 1969.

“I was very skinny when I fought George," he said. "It was very scary getting into the ring against a guy that big.

"After that fight, I was training in England and an ultimatum was put to me: Either take these pills or get beat up."

 

Unquestionably , Povetkin is short on good wins next to Norton, his best wins? Ruslan Chagaev, Whyte, a 40 year old Rahman ? Maybe a 40 year old Larry Donald or a 37 year old Chris Byrd?...Norton's best is a level above Povetkin's best

 

I didn’t say anything about how highly rate Povetkin is, I think he’s a very good HW on about the level of guys like Norton and probably a good choice to KO Kenny.

 

George’s tactic here is basically: “Well, Ken had muscles and PEDs had been invented. So we have to assume there’s a good chance he used them. I’m not saying he did, but, I mean, nobody ever had muscles without steroids amIrite???!!!”

Whereas Povetkin could melt a sample cup with his pee, lol. And pretty much fell apart when he reached a point where a third failed test would have ended his career so he had to back off the gear.

 

Well if he’s not rated highly then why discuss him as a guy who could beat someone who is?

Povetkin has no meaningful resume. Norton beat Ali once and was in two other close fights with him. I’d say that alone makes him a greater fighter than Povetkin.

As for KO’ing Ken, what’s the basis for that? Who did Alexander ever KO worth nothing … David Price, lol?

 

Because I personally don’t rate Norton highly? Could you tell me who did Norton beat that is proof he stylistically could overcome someone like Povetkin? I think he’s hasn’t got the best career to argue that how would you argue this fight? (No just UNO reversing with “who did AP beat like KN!) You’ve got the knowledge and I like to learn from smart people which I think you are.

 

So you’re saying ‘he used steroids’ while trying to also say ‘but I’m not saying he used steroids.’ Which is it?

And yes we saw a ton of well-built fighters before Ken Norton. Not so many heavyweights but that doesn’t mean he used PEDs. You’re grasping at straws.

You know how they DON’T test for steroids at the Olympics and in other athletic competitions? They don’t have guys walk in with shorts and no shirt and say ‘well he gots muscles so he must be on the gear.’ Hell, Povetkin was no bodybuilder and we KNOW he was on the gear.

Steroids =/= muscles. You could load up on any PED you want to the gills every day and do whatever it is you do now every day and you would not start looking like Hercules.

You just want to throw shade at someone who has absolutely no history that hints at use of PEDs because for some reason you want to equate him with absolutely 100% no doubt drug abuser Povetkin and say ‘see, they were both drug cheats’ when there is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case.

 

Ken Norton beat Jerry Quarry for one, who is stylistically way more similar to Povetkin than anyone Povetkin beat is similar to Norton.

 

Counterpoint: Norton also came from a generation that was taller than its predecessors, so the combination of size and stamina might have just been a function of the Boomers having a larger number of athletic big guys, from which talent pool Norton came.

Point in your favor: You could probably find evidence that football and track & field had lots of steroids during this period, including at the levels Norton competed. Nor would it have been illegal to do so; even if Norton used PEDs, there was nothing wrong with that as far as I'm aware.

Another counterpoint: Boxing training during that time seems to have been very traditionalist. Although @Saintpat can correct me on this one. So if Norton was following the advice of his coaches, they might have warned him off of steroids just because it was some newfangled approach created by weightlifters, which would make you slow and musclebound, etc. etc. IIRC, Norton said that he followed their advice to stop weight training, and to dehydrate himself, so he seemed to follow traditional advice even when modern S&C guys might consider it counterproductive.

 

I think Quarry was shot as do many others so I don’t think much of it. I’d love to hear your breakdown of the bout?

 

What do Portable Electronic Devices have to do with anything? - though we do know that AJ uses them.

 

Gentlemen, I don't know if this helps or only makes it worse, but the PED conflict is essentially resolvable.

Everybody seems to agree that if we have perfect PED testing, Povetkin is disqualified. @George Crowcroft believes this, @Saintpat believes this, and as far as I can tell, so does everybody else. So for those who are interested in that aspect of the bout, the thread and argument basically ends there. Ken Norton W DQ Povetkin.

For those who are interested in arguing about how the actual PED-fueled Povetkin we see on film would do against Norton -- and he is the only one available -- the thread goes on. Which is why, tongue-in-cheek aside, I'd suggested putting it in the 1970s. But I guess you could also pick a version of prime Povetkin who was probably on PEDs, but hadn't been caught yet. There are probably a couple bouts that fit those criteria.