Kessler - Can He Become The Greatest SMW Ever?

I'll just put it like this, i believe Kessler must do things pretty perfect at the weight (as the division stands) to get the spot.

 

It's way too soon to say he can't- the division's arguably the deepest in the game right now, with a tournament coming about guaranteeing top caliber opposition for the next few fights.

If he manages to escape it with a 5-0 record, he'd be well on his way to accomplishing that feat. We'll find out soon enough if that's the case.

 

And after that, there are really only 2-3 more big fights one could possibly ask of him before declaring him the most dominant ever SMW in proportion to the quality of his peers. And you might not even need that qualification - were the peers in Calzaghe's, Benn's, and Ottke's day (whether they fought them or not) a better class than what we have in the top 15-20 now? :think

 

I've read many of your posts and your a good poster...but if you can't spot the differenece between calzaghe and Junior Jones that's bad!!

It's not just that calz beat Kessler, it's also that he retired undefeated after being a champ for 11 years, was nearly consensus P4P top 3 when retiring!! Neither Jones nor Chris John can even compare to this.

I dislike Clazaghes resume as much as the next guy, and I'm not saying it'd be wrong to rank kessler above Calzaghe if these things happen. But these are not great comparisons.

 

I'm giving DINAMITA the benefit of the doubt that he's not rating Calzaghe as on par with Jones or John; but rather assuming that he was just attempting to dispel the notion that Kessler can't surpass someone who beat him (once) in his prime.

 

Oh dear. You have misunderstood my point entirely. Have you read through the whole thread?

Erm, yes. I know. That is MY point. PowerPuncher says Kessler will always rate below Joe PURELY because Joe beat Kessler - initially this was all he said and did not mention all of the factors which you have, which are obviously of critical importance. Check back and see. And what I am saying is that is bull****, because Junior Jones beat a prime Barrera and of course Barrera ranks above Jones because what Barrera achieved afterwards proves beyond doubt that he was a greater fighter than Jones. IF Kessler goes on and clearly surmounts Joe's achievements in the same way that Barrera surmounted Jones's, he will rank higher than Joe. The point I am making is not based on a comparison of the fighters, it is exposing PP's flawed logic. Fighter A beating Fighter B obviously does NOT mean Fighter A will always rank higher irrespective of whatever else Fighter B does. Thus, PP is talking **** and I am right.

Show me where I have ever said or even implied otherwise.

They are not great comparisons because they are not comparisons! Where am I saying Jones or John is as good as Calzaghe?! I am merely showing flawed boxing logic. If you cannot grasp this now I don't know what else I can say to make it any clearer.

 

Exactly.

It's a reaction to this idiotic statement:

Calazghe beat him in his prime, so Kessler can go and build a massive legacy and still be behind Joe

atsch

 

Listen ****ydoodle this much is fact, Kessler can do anything and wont surpass Calzaghe, both in their prime, at their very peak fought and Calzaghe won clearly. PROVING HE WAS THE BETTER FIGHTER - read that statement to yourself 10 times, because Calzaghe proved he was the better fighter that night when both in their biggest fight of their careers. Pulling out random upsets is completely irrelevant and is as much a waste of space as your whole Scotish nation

Now tell us how wins over Bika and Pascal will put Kessler above Calzaghe

If you knew anything about boxing you'd know Barrera improved after his Junior Jones showings and arguably won the rematch anyway

 

Lets re-examine this ******ation

So your proposition is Kessler will surpass Calzaghe the man who not only beat him, but the man who also has 7 wins superior to anything on Kessler's resume with just a few wins over some substandard B Class opponents.

Not only that you think the wins that could elevate Kessler above Calzaghe, include a man Calzaghe beat, a man that Hopkins who Calzaghe beat dominated, a man who just lost his last 3 big fights, and a man he's turned down a fight with and belt holders that are nowhere near proven at the very top level. The only man on the list who'd be up there with Calzaghe's top wins would be Dawson and we know Kessler turned that down

Do you want to reply to those points or just do your usual thing of coming back with some lame irrelevant bull****?

 

kesslers wins over Beyer (2nd rnd stoppage I believe) and Andrade are two very good wins.

If he beats Abraham, Froch and Ward I could see a serious case for rating Kessler as high.

Would you rate Calzaghe over B-Hop???atsch

 

If anyone goes 5-0 in this tournament they're gonna be ranked right up there.
As for Kessler/Calzaghe...Well head to head JC will always be superior as he clearly defeated a prime Kessler but thats not to say MK can't surpass Joes achievements if he keeps wining over the next few years.

 

You all keep talking about Calzaghe beating Kessler in his prime. If and I say If Kessler dominates the tournament plus fights with Bute, Pavlik, Dawson and perhaps B-Hop afterwords, then you could make the statement, that Kessler was NOT in his prime when he lost to Calzaghe, because of hand injuries or improved ring experience.

 

BHOP wasnt prime when he fought Calzaghe and he arguably won, Kessler was prime and he was outboxed and outfought. BHOPs has a massive depth of competition, KEssler doesn't

Beyer and Andrade are decent wins, although Beyer was past prime and never that good, Andrade. I'd rate Calzaghe's wins over Kessler himself, Eubanks, Reid, Mitchell, Jones Jr, Hopkins, Lacy all over anything on Kessler's resume. Then you have quality wins like Brewer, Woodhall, Veit, Bika. IMO Mundine is Kesslers best win to date

Lets say he does beat Abraham, Forch and Ward. Ward will be unproven, Froch will be a quality win but is clearly flawed (if you saw the Taylor fight) and Abraham's best win is over Miranda who also got owned by Pavlik who in turn got owned by Hopkins. All good potential wins but comparatively not as good or proven.

I've been a big critic of Calzaghe over the years but not only is he clearly a better fighter than Kessler on film, he beat him and has 7 wins above anything Kessler has done to date. Kessler winning this tourny is a big 'if' and even if he does the competition just isn't that strong at the moment. Calzaghe ofcourse won the tourny of Himself/KEssler/Beyer/Mundine/Bika/Lacy/Vanderpool/Reid already

 

lacy was unproven.

Abraham is one of the hardest hitters P4P and more proven than Lacy.

Hopkins lost to Jones in his prime and came back. kessler can do the same (probs not on the same level as Hop but then who is??????)

 

Lacy was making top10 P4P lists and had wins over Reid (who was coming off getting robbed against Otke), Vanderpool (considered top10 or higher), Pemberton (maybe top10), Sheika (fringe). So no I'd say Lacy had certainly done more than Abraham

Plus if you saw the fight Lacy got ruined by Calzaghe, the most brutal example of prelonged slapping ever, if Calzaghe could actually sit on his shots and put Lacy away he wouldnt have taken as much sustained punnishment, but Joe must have landed about 1000 shots on him

He was a flawed fighter from the get go, but at the time people were picking him to clear out 168, beat Tarver and actually go upto HW to be a HW champion, thats ESB though

Oh and no one is rating Hops of Jones Jr, so case in point