Kessler in p4p top ten??

WTF? Am I missing something here?

He wasn't top 10 P4P before the Calzaghe fight, sure as hell he isn't getting any higher than that after a win over some hopeless bum regardless if it is a title fight or not.

 

It is possible to move up, while having an unimpressive win. That being those above you losing.

And Sartison a hopeless bum? Either you have very high standards or else you fail at rating fighters proberly.

 

Point noted.

Bottomline, Kessler is not top 10 P4P. He has potential though.

 

p4p lists are only for fun and peoples opinions they are not to be taken seriously.

its why p4p fighters lose so often to fighters ranked way way behind them on such lists.

i just watched mora v forest yesterday.
or step back a few years and mayorga v forrest.

no one is telling me that mayorga is a top 10 best fighter in the world , yet these lists are regulary changed by just one fight.

mosely beats dlh/goes near top
forest beats mosely goes near top
etc etc
there is no hard and fast criteria for matching up p4p

a flyweight with limited skills but with a good chin throwing 1,400 punches a fight at high speed would rule light heavy ,cruiser and heavy if he was p4p there size, yet this is not taken into consideration when p4p lists are drawn up, yet that is exactly what i take p4p to mean.

if fighter a weighing 108lbs was fighting at another weightclass how would he do.

heavyweights get knocked and dont put on these lists yet a 6.7 heavyweight with 1 punch ko power coming down to flyweight would win every fight by d/q from low blows or by ko.

weightclass by weightclass, yes you can anylyse and judge.

p4p there is simply no rules/criteria/to make it anything other than a pissing in the wind contest and one list is as good as any other list and there is no right or wrong .

 

sean, some of your criticisms are surely right! For example, how come someone not on the p4p list suddenly ends up beating someone high up? However, I think p4p lists are not how you describe them. p4p, I think, should be understood as follows: a list of the best fighters in the word, best to worst, according to how good they are at and around their weightclass according to the historical standards for what it means to be good at that weightclass. Thus, heavyweights should be on the p4p lists if they're good enough and the whole: take that fghter with that style but just imagine him fighting at a higher weightclass - well, that just doesn't make any sense.

So...if a p4p list is as follows, for example:

1. X - LHW
2. Y - WW
3. Z - SMW
4. W - WW
5. Q - SMW
6. R - LHW

...what that means to me is that X is a better LHW thn Y is a WW. Y is better WW than Z is a SMW. Z is a beter SMW than W is a WW, etc.

But you are right that there cannot be a perfect p4p list because such comparisons are sometimes impossible to make, especially when they're made between a fighter at a very low weight and one at a very high weight. Still, such comparisons make sense. For example, we all agree that Cotto is a better WW than Bute is a SMW, for example, so in a p4p list, Cotto comes above Bute. No?

So...to answer the thread question: are there 10 fighters better than Kessler is at SMW at their own weights? The answer seems to be a clear yes! So, Kessler is not p4p Top 10.

 

Fair enough.

 

as i said p4p lists are subjective and every poster has there own criteria when drawing up there own.

there is no right way to draw up a p4p list and no wrong way.

if cotto at about 5.6 was to put on 20lbs his height/speed/ko power would all make it hard for him to compete.

if bute were to boil down to welter and be strong then at 6.2 with his power he would be a monster.

its all subjective .

my own critieria is different and i beleive they should be done more on a h2h and not so much on past acheivements .
if a fighter is fading, he should be replaced on the rankings .
if a fighter is cherrypicking to avoid fighters he should be dropped places.
if a fighter is not fighting the best of his own division drop him places.

more fluid ranking sytems i would prefer , but if someone has a different criteria from me, its equally valid as there are no hard and fast set rules in this one aspect of ranking boxers in our sport.

 

I agree with your criteria completely. I also agree with you that rankings cannot be objective because it's impossible at the limit to say whether a certain WW is a better WW than a certain SMW is a SMW. However, I don't understand by what you mean by this: if Bute boiled down to WW, his power would be monsterous and if Cotto went up to SMW, his power would be nothing compared to that of powerful SMWs...

...what kind of a comparison would that be? In that comparison made sense, then a big 6 foot 6 powerful, fit guy with just the slightest boxing experience would be better p4p than the best flyweight that ever lived, because he could beat the **** out of him, just because he's so much bigger and stronger, even though he doesn't know how to box.

...that's why the only comparison that makes sense if you want to make up p4p lists, imo, is: is fighter X better at his own weight than fighter Y is at his own weight? If so, X is better p4p than Y.

Cotto is better p4p than Bute because Cotto is a better WW than Bute is a SMW. Yeah, Bute could beat Cotto up, but that's because he's much bigger. Cotto couldn't beat Bute if they fought at 168 because Cotto is not a natural SMW - he is very far from being a natural SMW. Bute couldn't beat Cotto at WW either, because he just couldn't make the weight and still be anywhere close to fghting fit...

I agree that p4p lists cannot be objective even to the extent that lTop 10 lists at a certain weight can be objective - this is of course, true! However, p4p lists do make sense! Cotto is a better boxer than Bute, for example - everyone would agree. Cotto is a better WW than Bute is a SMW - and that's the only comparison that can be rationally be made, IMO. No?

 

double post

 

He had to have an operation on his back. They guy can't fight when he's injured can he?

 

your post actually just validates what danepug is writning.

and actually makes hattons win look much lesser. an injured back, 1 fight in 2,5 years, that hardly constitutes a perfect preperation:deal

 

atsch So a seasoned professional boxer preparing for 12 weeks, facing the #2 in the division, taking him out and then preparing for another 12 weeks is not going to be adequately prepared? Fighters get injured all the time and have to take time off to recover fully. What would be worrying would be if he had surgery and then fought two months later. Whichever way people try and spin it, Hatton's performance that night was immense.

 

seasoned..:yep how about old.. how about inactivity,, how about ring rust.. how about hatton being allowod to hug tszuy to death..:deal