Ketchel beaten up and KO'd by Papke : does it hurt his ranking ?

He was 17 years old in his 2nd pro fight when he lost to Thompson

What about his 3 wins over hall of famer Bill Papke?

What about his 2 wins, one by brutal knockout, over hall of famer Jack O Brien?

What about his 3 round knockout over Hugo Kelly, whom went 40 rounds with Tommy Burns.

What about his knockout over Jack Twin Sullivan, who fought to a draw with Tommy Burns?

What about his early knockout over 200lb Porky Flynn despite weighing only 155lb?

What about his lack of fear to challenge prime versions of Sam Langford and Jack Johnson despite being white in an era he could have hid behind the color line?

Ketchel had flaws, but he was a murderous puncher

 

I mean he would have been the man instead of Ketchel had Ketchel not existed for the era.....

 

Menke was writing for Cleveland Press in 1907-1908 and for Cleveland News in 1908-1909, it is extremely unlikely that he was present at San Francisco fight in 1908.

 

He was, part time, primarily covering baseball (which he was playing semi pro) as a local cub reporter. They werent paying him to travel two thousand miles plus room and board to cover a boxing match that was all over the wires. The article said it was 1937 and as I said, no contemporary ringside backs up the idea that Papke struck Ketchel on the handshake. In fact there is strong evidence that this story is was derived incorrectly from Papkes allegations prior to this fight that Ketchel had struck him during the handshake. And again, Menke was not a very reliable source.

 

Well technically he was 18 in the 2nd loss, and Thompson just 20.

I agree Pakpe is his best win, but he lost to Langford, and Sam could have been holding back. While Ketchel did beat O'Brien, Jack was near the end at that time.

Based on what I read Kethcel's draw to Frank Kluas really should be a loss, and that one happened in 1910.

I agree he was a puncher, just not a skilled one based on the two films shown, yet some think he was among the best 4 middle weight ever.

 

Well then, I suppose your bathtub is overflowing with water by now. A bit of an inside joke here, I'm sure you'll get it.

There are some myths and hearsay with Ketchel. Others are commenting on it.

Based on what I've read, Ketchel should have lost to Klaus. You could argue Ketchel was beaten by the four most formidable fighters he meet in the ring.

Langford, Kluas, J*****n, ( To prevent further spillage ) and Papke, in addition to draws with no names.

 

1904-05-12 The Anaconda Standard (Anaconda, MT) (page 2)
The second preliminary was between Maurice Thompson of Butte and Jack Ketchell of Michigan. When the boxers met in the center, it looked as if the Michigander had a chance, but a hard right on the jaw took the snap out of him. He is heavier than Thompson, but has little or no science. In fact, he fought like a schoolboy, and could get himself into the most awkward possible crouch when ready for a punch. He got a good drubbing, but he was game to the end and fought all the way through the six rounds. Duncan MacDonald gave Thompson an earned decision.

1904-05-12 The Butte Inter Mountain (Butte, MT) (page 7)
The second preliminary was won by Maurice Thompson of Butte from Stanley Ketcham of Michigan. The first round was pleasing to look at with no one hurt, until a right landed on Ketcham's jaw.
After that Ketcham did not have a look in and his entire efforts were directed toward keeping away from Thompson's swings. At the end of the sixth round Referee McDonald gave Thompson the decision.

1904-05-12 The Butte Miner (Butte, MT) (page 3)
Morris Thompson, of Butte, was given the decision at the end of six rounds over Stanley Ketchel, of Grand Rapids, Mich. The event was full of color. The Michigan lad's nose gave forth enough blood to stain both himself and his opponent a crimson hue. Thompson was clever and Ketchel was strong, but without experience or even ordinary cleverness.

1904-10-22 The Butte Miner (Butte, MT) (page 12)
In a rattling ten-round bout at the Casino last night Maurice Thompson was given the decision over Young Ketchel. The fighting was fast and furious and the finish of the whirlwind order. Thompson had a decided advantage in every round after the fourth. Up to that time Ketchel had a shade the better of the going. Ketchel was many pounds the heavier and had the advantage in reach. He opened up in a slap-bang fashion and several times seemed to have Thompson in distress. The pace he set told on both men and after the fifth round both men had lost the sleep-producing qualities of their punch. Thompson opened strongly in the fifth round and from that time on he had things his own way. The fast pace in the first rounds told heavily on Ketchel and he was very weak. He braced in the last round and came back well. Though Thompson had decidedly the better of the argument Ketchel demonstrated that he was a good game boy and not afraid of punishment. Thompson's gameness stood him in stead and he took considerable punishment in the first rounds. Louis Long refereed the fight.