Kid Gavilan vs Floyd Mayweather Jr @147lbs

OK, that doesn't answer the question, how did Roy beat those guys but Floyd has looked nowhere near as good, even against lesser competition.

Also, if Hopkins was green, so was Roy, considering Hops had more fights.

 

Floyd in the same league as RJJ? atsch

 

You can say they were both green...so the fight is a wash it doesnt count.

Roy owned most people because he hasnt really CHALLENGED himself.

 

Floyd is a great fighter, but he can be OVERLY DEFENSIVE.

Unlike another great defensive fighter in Pernell Whitaker, he gets into a shell and doesn't let his hands go as much as he should. Whitaker, on the other hand, would throw 100+ punches a round, maintain a distance with a sharp jab, and still avoid punches. This is a reason why he was able to do so well against pressure fighters. Floyd tends to retreat to the ropes and look for opportunities to counter. He's done fine so far against less than ATG competition, but against a technical pressure fighter like Miguel Cotto, he might get outworked and put into a defensive shell. Paul Williams would probably outwork him too.

Mayweather isn't much smarter than a prime Jones. I'd go as far as saying Jones was every bit as smart, if not smarter.

 

Neither has Floyd. Stop avoiding the question.

How come Floyd, despite having similar physical talent(according to you) but much better technical skill, doesn't dominate the way Jones did? Jones dominated a much better fighter than Floyd has ever faced in James Toney, and never really struggled other than once in his career. So how does Floyd struggle against lesser fighters if he's just as physically talented, but even moreso technically?

Do you see? Floyd is better technically, but the fact that RJJ still dominates better opposition much more thoroughly should tell you he was on a while nother level in terms of physical ability/natural talent.

 

Roy has faced better competition than Floyd

 

Agreed, a prime Jones was. It's a bit of a complicated argument though.

 

First off, comparing 30yr old PBF who has never lost to Jones entire career isn't logical. Jones at 30 had lost fewer rounds in his career than PBF lost fighting DLH and Castillo.

Now, as for you comment on defense.....defense is not soley defined by blocking punches. It has a number of qualities that make up the skill set. Lets say you are able to fall back on reflexes as an argument against Jones. So what? Reflexes enhance PBF's defense as well. Does he not use reflexes to move his hands into position fast enough to block punches? Of course he does. He of course has to recognize the attack and know where to move his hands to block the punch and be in the proper position to strike back. Well wait, wouldn't Jones, who dodged punches entirely instead of blocking them often, have to also recognize the punch, where it was coming from, and where to move his body in order to get out of the way? His reflexes helped him do it, but it was skill that allowed him to recognize the punch and where to move to avoid it. You cannot simply move because you know a punch is coming, otherwise you might move directly into the punch.

Point being, Jones was an exceptional defensive fighter. Anyone who makes opponents miss as often as Jones did is a great defensive fighter. Mayweather has been hit cleanly far more often than Jones has been in his career, and Mayweather hasn't fought as long.

So my question to you is, why do you simply define defense as blocking punches, and not making people miss and rolling with punches? Is it because it's convenient for your argument? Meaning that if PBF made people miss more instead of blocking punches, you would define defense that way?

Jones was and is considered one of the smartest fighters to step in the ring. He adjusted on the fly (and in your opinion of him, without much technical ability) to world class fighters.

Then how do you defend PBF. Jones has fought better competition.

 

By a ****ing mile.

 

Any thoughts on the potential De La Hoya rematch?atsch

 

Alright, alright, I think the guy learned his lesson. Fantastic post by the way KG.

 

Agree. Good post.

 

Sure -

' Fight some real challenges you comfort zone, safety first, cherry picking greedy **** that is all wrong for boxing in the end because you won't extend yourself out like true fighters and true potential ATG's do, as well as how their past era cemented HOF counter parts did to make this sport what it is. '

AND -

' You aren't half the fighter that Roy Jones Jr was, and you aren't the best fighter of this era. That title goes to Mr. Joe Calzaghe and hopefully he cements that while you get your ****ing ass handed to you by your first real challenge above 140 pounds '

AND -

' You always took the easy route, facing fighters that stylistically appealed to you after a B+ level Castillo took you to the limit in two fights and boxing fans are now feeling the effects of it since you are universally branded as the P4P # 1 and won't do a damn thing to prove aside from fighting overrated names that you can easily deal with in safety first displays '

AND -

' Old DLH's and Ricky Hatton level fighters don't push Supernatural's too hard '.

How's that Brooklyn?:yep

 

The things that was so impressive about Jones is that he made guys so reluctant to throw punches at him. Coming into his fight with Bryant Brannon at 168, stats showed that his opponents threw half as many punches against Roy as they did against any other opponent. Thats ridiculous IMO. Often times he would use explosive counters and head movement as his defense, so that other guys simply couldn't get off.

 

I think it's safe to say that Floyd is the 'most disgraceful P4P #1' ever.:yep