****Kirks Championships 2017 ****

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by kirk, Dec 31, 2016.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    You mean Pac-Margo when Pac got really really lucky and cracked Margarito's orbital bone in the 3rd, and still it took everything humanly possible for Pac to keep Tony off of him, and even though he beat him one-sidedly, according to Pac, he took the worse beating of his career and was laid up in bed for a month with ****ed up ribs and vowed to never face a guy that big again, that one?

    Yea what if Canelo doesn't luck out and break Chavez Jr's orbital bone doe?
     
  2. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I like your post.

    I told my brother, who is picking Canelo via beatdown, that personally it wouldnt suprise me if this fight resembled a broke, poor mans, hobo mans version of Margarito vs Cotto, where the bigger guy just has too much activity, size and pressure for the smaller, more economical fighter to realistically overcome.

    That being said though, the Martinez fight was dang near -five- years ago already. Half a decade is a loooonnng time in boxing, especially when you are talking about a fighter who doesnt keep good care of himself, and has suffered KO's since, like JR. I am not convinced that his performances from his middleweight days will be all that relivent today. I also am not entirely convinced that the Martinez (who I am a huge fan of) that fought JR would deal with Canelo all that great either.

    We will see!

    Good post. I like reading your breakdowns.
     
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  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah that one.

    When you defend punches with your chin, and the other man is able to land every power punch in the book, it becomes a bit less luck and a bit more probability in terms of doing serious damage.
     
  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    In a curveball.... maybe they rob Canelo to give it to JR to set up a garunteed trilogy. A 3 fight 'mega' trilogy against Chavez for the next year and a half probably is more appealing to the likes of GBP then Canelo getting undone (not that Im saying he would, but its possible) and derailed by Jacobs, Charlo, Saunders or Golovkin. I could see why they would prefer a trilogy with JR, especially since many will write off the loss as being due to a huge size difference.
     
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  5. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    I'm not entirely sold on my theory either, but I have fairly great intuition, and I see a fire in Julio's eyes unlike I've ever seen, I can literally feel his passion to win here, and I think most of his recent problems have stemmed from his heart not being in it, if a war torn Cotto who's been beaten down several times and far worse than Chavez, can see the final bell against Canelo and steal quite a few rounds off of him, Chavez can as well, especially a motivated, vicious, in shape dedicated version, and possibly do far better.
     
  6. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    On a sidenote (instead of making threads I just post my random thoughts here lol)

    You know, the more time that goes by, and the more I see how much size matters in boxing.... the more and more I appreciate what Pac has done in his career. When you think of size being one of the reasons given for why Loma lost to Salido, or for instance how the size difference in Chocolitos last fight did seem to be a factor early on (imo), Golovkin struggling with Jacobs size, ect.... I look back on Pac against the likes of Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, hell even Mayweather to be honest even though he got convincingly beat, and my respect for his performances just continues to rise.
     
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  7. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Watch more Chavez Jr. you smug c***. He's not that easy to hit clean.

    And since its "yeah that one", ask yourself, if Pac hadn't broken his orbital bone, when Margo had Pac almost sitting on the bottom rope wincing in pain, could he have finished the job? He certainly did against Cotto. Something Canelo couldn't pull off, hell Cotto looked far worse after the second Margarito match with no loaded gloves than he did after Canelo.

    And Canelo was far more apprehensive to let his hands go against a smaller, yet bigger puncher in Cotto, how will that effect his output against a bigger, bigger puncher?
     
  8. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I hear you. My thing, just in my opinion, Ive come to think that a fighters mentality before a fight is only so much if he hasnt paved the way for success up to that point. I have no doubt that JR is doing all he can in this camp to win this fight. I have no doubt he will give 100% to win. But when he hasnt primed his body with elite level training camps, been partying, boozing, ect... before this camp, sometimes you can do all you can in the two months before the fight but your body still isnt at the level it needs to be at to perform the way you know it can when its at its best (which is why many fighters like taking a few fights before jumping in at the elite level after a comeback)

    But ya I can definitely see where youre coming from. I **** on this matchup because of its significance in comparison to who Canelo could be fighting, but really, the matchup itself has me excited to see how this plays out.
     
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  9. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Im not joking I am half tempted to put $100 on him at what... 6 to 1 odds? Not bad odds imo.
     
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  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I've seen almost all of his fights and since the Martinez fight he's looked quite poor and it became incredibly apparent he was not going to live up to the hype.

    If he could have finished the job against Pacquiao, he would have done.

    Canelo and Margo are two completely different types of boxer. I'm not surprised Margo was able to damage an opponent more.

    Don't get me wrong, Chávez is worth a punt in terms of the odds from the bookies. He's 9/2 on my app and that worth it because whilst i think this is far from a 50/50 and whilst i do expect Canelo to dominate him, i certainly wouldn't say it's a +450 (i think that's how they do the odds were you're from) type of fight. I'd go more like a +250 or +300 type of matchup.

    Tldr; I'd back Chávez with the bookies but not in a competitive league.
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Totally agree with you here mate, there's no way on earth the odds should be that wide.
     
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  12. matt007

    matt007 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think u should save your cash kirk, but up to u.

    For me canelo will totally dominate the fight and ko jr. We know canelo is big guy so Jr's higher weight isn't such an issue, Jr's elite days are long gone.
     
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  13. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Yeah that's what most of the league thought when Chavez Jr. moved up to face Fonfara too. And that turned out real well for most of us.:lol:

    See...
     
  14. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    So a guy gets dominated by one of the most talented and naturally gifted fighters of the last 15 years, and loses his passion afterward and now he's a bum that won't live up to the hype? But what if Chavez Jr. brings his Andy Lee A-Game here and does care again? And all signs are pointing that being the case. Quit being such a cynic, isn't that my deal?

    If Margarito didn't have a ****ed up eye that Pac could tee off on every time he was in trouble, he could have finished the job, what I'm implying here is, an uninjured Margs vs. Pac that match would have been a whole lot more interesting coming down the stretch.

    And you're right, Margarito fights nothing like Canelo, are you dense??? I wasn't implying that. Chavez does though, and Canelo can and has fought like Cotto in the past.
     
  15. matt007

    matt007 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A shock can happen in boxing Chris, but i don't expect this to be it.
     
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