**** Kirk's ESB Championships 2011 ****

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by kirk, Dec 29, 2010.


  1. DemolitionDan

    DemolitionDan ATG and HoF Full Member

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    Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson- Muhammad Ali by UD

    A Very popular fantasy match up between two of the most popular Heavyweights ever. The great part about that is everybody knows who they are, what they did, and who they did it against. I don't have to go into great detail about Ali's style of how he bounced on his toes, hands low, flicked out a jab, followed by a beautiful straight right, and continued to dance while he did all that. And Tyson, gloves up in a peekaboo style, bobbing n weaving, firing a quick hard bomb, a bomb if landed, that more than likely dropped whoever was standing in front of him. Well look at that, I ended up describing their style anyway. :lol: Well, if you didn't know what they did, now you know. Alright, now going back to their popularity, these are two of the most popular boxers, ever. Everybody knows who these fighters are. You say "Ali" everybody quickly thinks Muhammad Ali. If you say "Tyson" everybody assumes you are talking about Mike Tyson. With that though, that doesn't mean this would be a close battle where if they fought 10 times each fighter would win 5 times each. I think this fight is pretty easy, to be honest. I think this is a fight where everybody looks at that one attribute, Mike Tyson's power, and overrates him. When one fighter has power, everybody gets crazy and automatically loves him and talks about that power, but when a fighter neutralizes that power, then that fighter has problems. In this fight, I don't like Tyson's chances at all, I think he has a small puncher's chance and that is it. Tyson was strong and powerful, but his power could be neutralized and with that said let's take a look at common styles.

    Muhammad Ali fought "Smokin" Joe Frazier. He definitely could resemble a Mike Tyson clone. A small heavyweight, with powerful hands, especially the left hook, head movement for 3 minutes a round, and massive heart and chin. Now, Tyson made be a little bit more powerful, a little more quicker...for arguments sake let's say he was a little quicker and a little more powerful than Frazier, the big edge is that Frazier was an unstoppable machine. He was the energizer bunny, he just kept coming and coming and coming. Tyson was never like that. Tyson, mentally, could unravel and he could become frustrated, and that is the BIG key in this fight. Ali frustrating Tyson with movement and Tyson not being able to get Ali out of there early. His only big attribute over Ali, his power. Ali had a big heart, and a big chin, he could definitely take a punch. Anyway, going back to the common styles theme. who did Tyson fight that was a common style to Ali? Well, he fought this man named James "Quick" Tillis. He fought Tyson when he was a young, up and coming prospect who knocked out everybody. Tillis, who was trained by Angelo Dundee, was able to move, and really have his moments against Tyson. It was a very close fight, a fight in which Tyson obviously won. Tillis though, while quick, is nowhere near the level of skill of an Ali. Tillis, didn't have the skills, stamina, (or the hands of stone like the champ from Panama. :lol: wink wink) or chin of an Ali. Definitely, a big gulf in class when comparing Ali and Tillis.

    So, with all that said above, style wise, and common opponents style wise. I would feel very confident in saying Ali would pretty much dominate the fight against Mike Tyson. Early rounds, very tense, very dramatic, as Tyson loops with fire bombs they may catch Ali's attention, but Ali stays calm and patient and continues scoring with the jab. 4th or 5th round, Tyson starts getting a little flustered as he's down on points, but Ali quite often took a round or two off here and there if he knew that he was in control. I believe in the middle of this fight he starts slowing down a bit hanging on the ropes, Tyson fires away, Ali rolls from the punches. The punches look like they are doing a lot of damage, but Ali is being sneaky by rolling with them. He holds Tyson's head a bit, that pisses Tyson off which, mentally, starts messing with Tyson as well. Late in the fight Ali is now comfortably ahead, and the danger of Tyson's power is over. Tyson is getting tired, frustrated. Ali meanwhile is continuing a nice pace. Boxing, moving, etc. And every once and awhile lands a nice 4, 5, 6 punch combo that backs up Tyson just a hair. Championship rounds are a bit like the last couple of rounds, 7-9, Ali is dominating and Tyson is getting swelling up and winging punches, but they have no effect, and they miss. Ali cruises to a 9-3 type 12 rounds decision. Three more rounds though, and I think Ali stops Tyson. The reason why I don't think Ali stops Tyson within 12 rounds is because it took James Douglas 10 rounds to finally stop Tyson, and Douglas hit harder than Ali, and Douglas throughout the fight was throwing everything, but the kitchen sink at Tyson. But sticking with that though as well. A big 6'3 Douglas was able to jab and keep Tyson on the outside, but took risks by throwing tons of punches at him and, for the most part, staying in the pocket. Ali wouldn't take those risks and he would just dance away. So, that is why I would take Ali by decision rather than stoppage, but if it's 15 rounds, then Ali has a great chance to stop him.
     
  2. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry The Reverse Somersault! Full Member

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    Dec 8, 2009
    Jesus EFFIN Christ, you're not normal dude. I need to buy some popcorn to get through this breakdown. Great job
     
  3. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Jul 26, 2004

    Daaaaamn :happy

    What a way to end my night.... thanks Dan :good
     
  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    This is where we pit two past prime fighters against eachother and see who picks who to win, and who comes out the victor.

    All matchups are open to vote by anyone who has placed a pick for the league this year. The voting never stops so if two months from now you place a pick for a matchup we already did, just quote the matchup and cast your vote and I will get it added.

    This is not who has a better legacy, but who would in a fight between the two, the majority of the time.

    Now, lets pit the best vs the best and see whos left standing when the dust settles.

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    For the first matchup I had to use Ali vs Tyson. It pits two of the most famous heavyweights ever against eachother in a classic, if not cliche at this point, lol, matchup.


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    Muhammad Ali
    56-5 (37 KO's)

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnzofi_QltI[/ame]


    VS


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    Mike Tyson
    50-6 (44 KO's)

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QACELH3www[/ame]
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-YvtkqjtBc&feature=related[/ame]



    Ali vs Tyson
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    Dan's Breakdown
    A Very popular fantasy match up between two of the most popular Heavyweights ever. The great part about that is everybody knows who they are, what they did, and who they did it against. I don't have to go into great detail about Ali's style of how he bounced on his toes, hands low, flicked out a jab, followed by a beautiful straight right, and continued to dance while he did all that. And Tyson, gloves up in a peekaboo style, bobbing n weaving, firing a quick hard bomb, a bomb if landed, that more than likely dropped whoever was standing in front of him. Well look at that, I ended up describing their style anyway. :lol: Well, if you didn't know what they did, now you know. Alright, now going back to their popularity, these are two of the most popular boxers, ever. Everybody knows who these fighters are. You say "Ali" everybody quickly thinks Muhammad Ali. If you say "Tyson" everybody assumes you are talking about Mike Tyson. With that though, that doesn't mean this would be a close battle where if they fought 10 times each fighter would win 5 times each. I think this fight is pretty easy, to be honest. I think this is a fight where everybody looks at that one attribute, Mike Tyson's power, and overrates him. When one fighter has power, everybody gets crazy and automatically loves him and talks about that power, but when a fighter neutralizes that power, then that fighter has problems. In this fight, I don't like Tyson's chances at all, I think he has a small puncher's chance and that is it. Tyson was strong and powerful, but his power could be neutralized and with that said let's take a look at common styles.

    Muhammad Ali fought "Smokin" Joe Frazier. He definitely could resemble a Mike Tyson clone. A small heavyweight, with powerful hands, especially the left hook, head movement for 3 minutes a round, and massive heart and chin. Now, Tyson made be a little bit more powerful, a little more quicker...for arguments sake let's say he was a little quicker and a little more powerful than Frazier, the big edge is that Frazier was an unstoppable machine. He was the energizer bunny, he just kept coming and coming and coming. Tyson was never like that. Tyson, mentally, could unravel and he could become frustrated, and that is the BIG key in this fight. Ali frustrating Tyson with movement and Tyson not being able to get Ali out of there early. His only big attribute over Ali, his power. Ali had a big heart, and a big chin, he could definitely take a punch. Anyway, going back to the common styles theme. who did Tyson fight that was a common style to Ali? Well, he fought this man named James "Quick" Tillis. He fought Tyson when he was a young, up and coming prospect who knocked out everybody. Tillis, who was trained by Angelo Dundee, was able to move, and really have his moments against Tyson. It was a very close fight, a fight in which Tyson obviously won. Tillis though, while quick, is nowhere near the level of skill of an Ali. Tillis, didn't have the skills, stamina, (or the hands of stone like the champ from Panama. :lol: wink wink) or chin of an Ali. Definitely, a big gulf in class when comparing Ali and Tillis.

    So, with all that said above, style wise, and common opponents style wise. I would feel very confident in saying Ali would pretty much dominate the fight against Mike Tyson. Early rounds, very tense, very dramatic, as Tyson loops with fire bombs they may catch Ali's attention, but Ali stays calm and patient and continues scoring with the jab. 4th or 5th round, Tyson starts getting a little flustered as he's down on points, but Ali quite often took a round or two off here and there if he knew that he was in control. I believe in the middle of this fight he starts slowing down a bit hanging on the ropes, Tyson fires away, Ali rolls from the punches. The punches look like they are doing a lot of damage, but Ali is being sneaky by rolling with them. He holds Tyson's head a bit, that pisses Tyson off which, mentally, starts messing with Tyson as well. Late in the fight Ali is now comfortably ahead, and the danger of Tyson's power is over. Tyson is getting tired, frustrated. Ali meanwhile is continuing a nice pace. Boxing, moving, etc. And every once and awhile lands a nice 4, 5, 6 punch combo that backs up Tyson just a hair. Championship rounds are a bit like the last couple of rounds, 7-9, Ali is dominating and Tyson is getting swelling up and winging punches, but they have no effect, and they miss. Ali cruises to a 9-3 type 12 rounds decision. Three more rounds though, and I think Ali stops Tyson. The reason why I don't think Ali stops Tyson within 12 rounds is because it took James Douglas 10 rounds to finally stop Tyson, and Douglas hit harder than Ali, and Douglas throughout the fight was throwing everything, but the kitchen sink at Tyson. But sticking with that though as well. A big 6'3 Douglas was able to jab and keep Tyson on the outside, but took risks by throwing tons of punches at him and, for the most part, staying in the pocket. Ali wouldn't take those risks and he would just dance away. So, that is why I would take Ali by decision rather than stoppage, but if it's 15 rounds, then Ali has a great chance to stop him.
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    Our Picks: Ali vs Tyson


    Ali
    By Stoppage
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    By UD
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    Tyson
    By Stoppage
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  5. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    UNDER CONSTRUCTION - Slowing Adding Links piece by piece.

    Update - Aug 27th
    *2008, 2009, 2010 added in the links
    * In the spotlight link added and updated

    Update - Aug 28th
    * Quiz links updated
    * Beyond the numbers links added and updated

    Update - Aug 29th
    * All time rankings link added

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    - Peoples Champion: Click Here

    - Featured Fights: Click Here

    - In the Spotlight: Click Here

    - Fantasy Fights: Click Here

    - Prospect Watch: Click Here

    - Quiz Challenge: Click Here

    - Beyond the Numbers: Click Here

    - The Stats: Click Here


    OTHER LINKS
    - All Time Rankings
    - 2008 Thread - Click Here
    - 2009 Thread - Click Here
    - 2010 Thread - Click Here
     
  6. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Jul 26, 2004
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Sep 15, 2009
    Great features kirk!
     
  8. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Jul 26, 2004
    Thanks Luf... just trying to put in some work while I have time, trying to get some things organised. Heading to bed soon though.

    Aye you guys seen this?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqT4FOoHPbs[/ame]


    Staged or not staged, kinda sad to me. If its genuine, I feel for Sr, I know I dont know the whole story and all... but idk.... just kinda sad to me.
     
  9. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Jul 26, 2004
    Also if anyone finds a link that doesnt work, let me know, thanks :good
     
  10. Tackleberry

    Tackleberry The Reverse Somersault! Full Member

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    Dec 8, 2009
    epic updates this weekend Kirk. Great job
     
  11. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    I wanted to react earlier, but my phone went berserk after loading the page. :fire
    Nice job Kirk :good
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Sep 15, 2009
    I do find it funny how one page kirk says he doesn't have enough time to run the league how he wants and the next page he throws in two new features!

    Both epic by the way.

    Justifying my tyson pick: this is almost entirely based on the frazier fight. I see tyson as a better frazier in almost every category bar determination. Where frazier catches ali, tyson puts him out.
     
  13. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Jul 26, 2004
    Haha luf I hear you on both counts. This weekend was an exception though because I literally stayed home my entire weekend just chilling around the house.... that's usually not the case. As for tyson.... that's exactly why I was going to pick him. But then I start thinking how people also say that that wasn't the best ali.... and some other things like dan pointed oit.. and I start thinking ali would outpoint him. Idk... ill make my pick today though.
     
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Sep 15, 2009
    Yeah I feel you man, i'm making the most of my final days of freedom, on wednesday my life is over for 2 months lol.

    The way I see it, if I prime frazier beats a slightly past prime ali, then a prime tyson beats a prime ali.

    Aside from tyson, frazier and louis, there isn't anyone i'd favour over ali.
     
  15. bolieu_mtl

    bolieu_mtl Active Member Full Member

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    Apr 2, 2008
    09/02 - Nerys Espinoza vs. Luis Alberto Lazarte // Lazarte UD
    09/02 - Evans Mbamba vs. Vic Darchinyan // Darchinyan KO8
    09/03 - Thomas Oosthuizen vs. Aaron Pryor Jr. // Oosthuizen UD
    09/03 - Jan Zaveck vs. Andre Berto // Berto UD
    09/10 - Argenis Mendez vs. Juan Carlos Salgado // Mendez UD
    09/10 - Vitali Klitschko vs. Tomasz Adamek // Klitschko TKO11
    09/10 - Pawel Kolodziej vs. Ola Afolabi // Afolabi TKO6
    09/10 - Paul McCloskey vs. Breidis Prescott // McCloskey UD
    09/10 - Yuriorkis Gamboa vs. Daniel Ponce de Leon // Gamboa KO4
    09/15 - Julio Cesar Miranda vs. Giovani Segura // Segura KO8
    09/15 - Jhonny Gonzalez vs. Rogers Mtagwa // Gonzalez TKO8
    09/17 - Saul Alvarez vs. Alfonso Gomez // Alvarez KO10
    09/17 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Victor Ortiz // Mayweather TKO12
    09/17 - Erik Morales vs. Lucas Martin Matthysse // Morales SD
    09/17 - Jessie Vargas vs. Josesito Lopez // Vargas UD
    09/17 - Craig McEwan vs. Kassim Ouma // McEwan SD
    09/21 - Anthony Mundine vs. Rigoberto Alvarez // Mundine UD
    09/24 - Alexander Dimitrenko vs. Michael Sprott // Dimitrenko KO6
    09/24 - Jorge Arce vs. Simphiwe Nongqayi // Arce TKO10
    09/24 - Raul Martinez vs. Rodrigo Guerrero // Martinez UD
    09/24 - Adrian Hernandez vs. Gideon Buthelezi // Hernandez KO7
    09/24 - Chris van Heerden vs. Kaizer Mabuza // van Herdeen UD
    09/25 - Gennady Martirosyan vs. Dmitry Pirog // Pirog KO6
    09/30 - Serhiy Dzinziruk vs. Lukas Konecny // Dzinziruk UD
    09/30 - Ajose Alusegun vs. Ali Chebah // Alusegun TKO10