Kliltschko vs. Jack Johnson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SorceryatCaesar, Aug 30, 2008.


  1. SorceryatCaesar

    SorceryatCaesar Leonard-Hagler author Full Member

    268
    0
    Aug 3, 2008
    could johnson have handled his size?

    could klitschko have handled his speed?
     
  2. Andrey

    Andrey Active Member Full Member

    1,201
    1
    Aug 15, 2004
    No offense but maybe Johnson was good for his ERA,

    fast forward 100 years and ummmm

    IS THIS A JOKE??



    Andrey
     
  3. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

    5,479
    12
    Jul 15, 2008
    Which Klitschko? It isn´t like they are the same.

    I think Johnson would have some problems with Wlad, he can´t clinch him and be successful with it the much bigger and stronger Wlad and with Wlad´s reach he maybe will intercept most of Wlad´s punches but would have a hard time countering them. His uppercut in the clinches could be the deciding factor but I could see Wlad leaning on him constantly on the clinches and tiring Johnson to score a lte KO when he get´s sloppy. Can´t call it, just some input.
     
  4. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    Johnson would be clueless when someone much bigger than him keeps jabbing from the outside, rendering his doggy-paddling defence ineffective. Can't really blame him though, he was still ahead of his time, which, make no mistake, was nothing short of primitive, coming from a bareknuckle-style.
     
  5. Sundance

    Sundance Active Member Full Member

    652
    0
    Mar 5, 2006
    Would Jesse Owens have a chance against Usain Bolt? Doubt it.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,675
    28,996
    Jun 2, 2006
    Think he'd have more chance than Smokin Joe :patsch
     
  7. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,406
    9,358
    Jul 15, 2008
    Johnson by KO ... His defense and style are not dated , they are timeless ...
     
  8. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    They are not dated?

    What i want you to do is this:

    Watch any film of Johnson that exists.

    1. Does he throw jabs from the outside, using his tremendous height & reach advantage? (Which would be a 30 pounds / 5 inch disadvantage against the Klitschko's, by the way)

    2. How many combinations does he throw?

    3. How often does he cover up and counter?

    4. How many combinations does he throw?

    5. Does he hook off the jab?

    6. Does he double up on the jab?

    7. Does he jab at all?

    8. Does he do anything else than the Ruiz style - i.e., throw a punch and hug his opponent?




    Now, even if we are to wrongfully assume that his style has not dated, how much chance does he have?

    Wladimir Klitschko has never performed better than against small, defensive fighters that lack big punching power. Out of 17 rounds, he never lost a single one to Byrd. He hardly gave a round to Ibragimov who fought defensively, contrary to his early career. Schulz was thrashed; never stopped before.

    See the pattern? To beat Klitschko, you either need to possess huge punching power or an iron chin combined with relentless pressure. Johnson brings neither to the table.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,675
    28,996
    Jun 2, 2006
    Damn you CP ! I refuse to accept your logic,because I don't want to.
     
  10. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    Do not underestimate my powers. I already made you put up a picture of beautiful Marciano in your hallway. By the end of this year, expect your wife to be asking why a picture of Frazier knocking down Ali gracefully hangs besides it.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,526
    27,111
    Feb 15, 2006
     
  12. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

    28,075
    54
    Oct 15, 2007
    What i want to say first is that the gap in greatness massive. Klitschko has not been a great HW, that's not classic forum nostalgia, that'a just that. And i know im talking here on a point that doesnt actually mean much to the subject of the thread, but hey, i deserve to once in a while.

    Also, the Ruiz comparison holds water only as tim wore on by ny reckoning, and on the subject of clinching, Wlad merely clinches, Johnson controlled clinches and often roughed his man up throughout them, something which Wlad does not like is a rough night imo. I can see the counter argument will be that Johnson won't be able to control a man with a clinch who is so much bigger than he. I'll admit, Jeffries wasnt tossed around in the clinches as much as the smaller men, until he was spent that is. When Johnson was really in shape in his younger days, he could really move, even when on the attack, and had very fast combos at his disposal.

    Maybe evolution has simply took its toll in this matchup though, im not entirely sure.

    Anyway, here, lets just admire my number 3 HW for a moment!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m0ONRHJroo&feature=related
     
  13. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    42,723
    264
    Jul 22, 2004
    You have to look how Johnson did against larger opponents like Jeffries (6'2), Denver Ed Martin (6'6) and Willard (6'6). He was dominant against all but Wladdy is a different proposition. If you look at some of the fast combinations he lands on Willard, look very impressive, and gives the same speed quandry Sanders gave, with more defensive skills and less power

    Comparisons have been made in this thread to Byrd and Ruiz. Johnson is by far the better puncher technically, faster than both, better counter puncher, better footwork, better timing, etc etc.

    Mike McCallum about Johnson's timing 'Jack Johnson knew when to punch and where to punch'

    Tyson sounding intelligent about Johnson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aixrHvT1jkU&feature=related

    If you don't think he could throw combinations see the below montage, he throws them pretty fast:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrVyrSimXYs
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,344
    Jun 29, 2007
    Solid stuff. Either klitschko wins via TKO.
     
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    50,950
    24,901
    Jan 3, 2007
    I have to agree with the points that Chris has given us. Johnson was well ahead of his time and acheived an incredible feat by winning both the colored and lineal heavyweight titles. His legacy was as good on paper as anyone's. But, comparing him to certain fighters 100 years later in a fantasy head to head matchup, is a whole different animal entirely.

    Johnson was far too accustomed to fighting men who were much smaller than he was, and didn't even use his size to the best of his advantage at that. His power was limited and so was his punch output in the ring. As Chris has already told us, Jack often threw a few shots, then grabbed hold of his opponent before resuming with the same sequence. I won't say that he had no jab whatsoever, but let's just say he was no Larry Holmes in that department. I think fighting Klitschko would be like culture shock for him. For once, Johnson would be the smaller man, and facing a big man who could also box, move and hit hard besides. Lastly, Johnson would not have the strenght or size that he'd need to tie up Wlad and control him on the inside, nor wear him down for that matter... This is a bad match for the Galveston Giant..