Kliltschko vs. Jack Johnson

Yeah, but in your example, one of them has "trained" his entire life to do one specific strength-related exercise, whereas the other just did weights in general.


Did Willard train his entire life for strength that is precisely aimed at shoving his opponent around? No, and neither did Wlad. But we do know that Wlad has done weight training, is significantly bigger and has shown to be stronger than every opponent he had, including gigantic 6'6 250++ lbs guys like McCline, Austin and Thompson.

Willard did none of that and mostly fought small guys.

 

It's true the way in which boxers of Jack Johnson fought was different, but fighting in an energy-conserving way is an art in itself.

In a 12 round fight under modern rules it's silly not to pick Wlad.

True, but Jack has a wee edge in skill.

 

I think Lowe makes a good point. Willard worked as a cowboy and as a manual laborer. He got his strength taking yearling steers off their feet and tossing about heavy bales of cotton. It is a good question how this "natural" strength compares to strength acquired through weight training.

 

You honestly cant say which of two fighters 100 years apart was stronger least of all if they are of similar size. Willard did not lift weights but a manual labourer develops types of strength that a powerlifter dosnt. As a weightlifter myself I know this as well as anybody.

There was one bare knuckle fighter in the 1850s called Bill Richards who could shoulder press a weight that wasnt matched in the olympics untill the late 20th century.

The bottom line is that you simply cannot know whether Klitschko was stronger than Willard or even Johnson. Sorry if this is inconvenient.

 

Another example of "natural" strength in America comes from some of our baseball players who never lifted weights. Mickey Mantle was a smallish man at 5' 11" and 185 lbs. He never lifted weights and yet hit a baseball farther than anyone of his era and perhaps anyone of any era. He had worked as a "slag ape" in coal mines. A slag ape is a fellow who breaks down boulders with a maul. I can see how that might develop upper body strength. I believe Dempsey worked for a while as a slag ape also. This might explain the definition of his shoulder and back muscles. Fitz worked as a blacksmith, another job which develops the upper body.

 

It´s about the difference of strength and strength through weights not about training one skill. Willard had natural strength through hard work. Wlad not. Strength through work is something totally different than strength through fights.

 

Lol @ all the fools who think Willard has a chance against Wlad.

 

No, it's not. That's a stupid argument.

Lifting weights is work too.

 

At least these fools atempt to present a case for their position rather than just saying "Klitschko wins easily because I say so".

An opinion without a justification isnt even an opinion.

 

Wlad has a Ph. D in Sports science.

Sport of boxing is more advanced today than it was 90 years ago. Wlad is a great athlete, Willard was not. Willard was just a big cowboy and didn't practise any sports until he was almost 30 years old.

 

I'm not saying Willard wasn't strong, i'm saying that

a) Your body does not know whether you are lifting weights specifically made for the purpose of gaining strength, or lifting bricks used in construction. Of course someone who has used the muscles needed for construction work for years is going to be stronger at the specific exercise of doing construction work, than someone who is on a general weight lifting program.


b) Willard, by and large, faced much smaller opposition and as such looks stronger than he may be. Johnson, who was one of Willard's biggest opponents, would be Wlad's smallest foe. Wlad has proven his strength against men his size or even bigger, Willard has not

c) Wlad has 20 pounds of muscle on him.

 

Today, people throw much more combinations, work from the outside instead of falling in a clinch after every single punch, and use glove blocking more often.

 

We cannot say for sure, obviously, but refer to my reply to Old Fogey.