Klitschko stepping up vs Browne. December 10th WBA title

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You don't think (in that hypothetical scenario) anyone would ever mention the FACT that Joshua NEVER beat a genuine top fighter ?

Seriously, unless Whyte, Martin and Breazeale go on to prove something major, they'll be lucky to be regarded as fringe contenders.

 

I don't think many would. Only idiots don't look at the context surrounding the fight at the time.

And I think the Peter fight is one of his best wins. He overcame adversity and showed he had it in him to beat a puncher when many thought he couldn't. It's one of his defining fights.

 

I guess Gary Cornish could go on to make the HOF, and Joshua's resume would be enhanced that way ......

 

Some would. I still think he would have been regarded as someone who would have probably had a great career if he hadn't ran into Wlad. History is littered with such examples.

 

The thing I'm getting at is : HYPE EXISTS IN BOXING.
Everyone knows hype exists in boxing.
I'm not saying Joshua's a hype job, but if he were to lose to Wladimir and never come good against A-level opponent, it would be reasonable to agree that he was.
He has a lot to live up to.

Fighters need to be judged on what they do. Not on hype or on fleeting perceptions.

Dillian Whyte is still probably the best boxer AJ has ever faced. And it wasn't even an easy win.
I'm not sure Whyte's any good, judging by world class standards he might be fairly poor.

 

Cornish, Breazeale and Martin would all go life and death with each other. All dross.

 

I wanna see Fury fight Wlad again.

So what if it's rare, how does that have any bearing on the discussion at hand?

I think he is one of the best, certainly. I do think he'd beat Wlad and Fury but right now he hasn't beaten anyone on that level. He still is higher ranked than Browne though.

The way I rate is no incentive to anyone. The incentive to boxers is the pay they receive. Which is something I give no thought to. I just want the boxers to fight the best opposition.

Ortiz is a brilliant HW. He deserves a higher ranking than Joshua right now.

Given Fury's abdication the rankings are probably:

Wlad
Povetkin
Ortiz

Then it's close between Wilder, Joshua and Parker.

I would like to see Ortiz matched with any of the top ten. Who wouldn't?

 

He may well be an utter hype job. My point is that even as a hype job he would bring a lot more to Wlad's legacy than many of his other opponents due to the wider context of Wlad taking him on.

No one could ever say that Wlad was only interested in only taking fights he was favoured to win. They'd say he took on the opponent seen as the best available at 40 years old and to many people's surprise took him out in style in front of thousands of away fans to show he was still the man.

It's would be great for his CV IMHO.

 

Oh yeah , beating a shotter Peter in an illegal clinch fest proves he was sooo much better

How bad must it be when your career is defined by a struggle against Sam Peters

 

I simply asked you is Franny Pianeta more proven than Joshua? He is going by your logic .

 

Most people (with any sense of logic and deductive reasoning) that have followed this sport for years already realize all of this.

Joshua is nowhere near his peak yet... and his opposition thus far is only one indicator that he's still really just a developing prospect that got a belt too soon. Putting *current* AJ as the clear favorite here would also be a valid confirmation that many people -particularly the "fair weather" casuals out there- really don't know much about boxing at all.

The old saying "Styles make fights" is perpetually correct, as history has shown time and time again. Unless AJ shows something new going forward, I suspect that Wladimir would've defeated him -likely by knockout- greatly in part because AJ isn't remotely close to being a complete HW yet. He also hasn't fought anyone remotely close to Wlad's level so far either, but... to be fair Tyson Fury hadn't either before he beat Wlad last year. The difference is, Fury and AJ don't box anything alike.

Klitschko fanatics wishing to see him grab an easy belt should probably be peeved that he didn't take the fight now (because he would've won) against a "still green" opponent who's carrying a lot of hype behind him. But AJ believers peeved that the fight is off shouldn't be so quick to assume it was an outright "duck" that took place. This match-up favored Wladimir big time.

For all we know, Wlad might not have liked not getting all of the things he wanted during negotiations with Hearn, and thusly went off to pursue a belt in an environment where everything favored him (as usual). Then, after he gets that belt, he'll try to be more... assertive... during future negotiations. Turning down a 50-50 purse split against an opponent right in his wheelhouse (like *current* AJ is)... without even possessing a title at all... implies that there's more to this than a simple "this guy is scared of that guy" scenario. It might be the terms of the contract that caused him to look for a way out.

Sure, Wlad-Browne is a **** fight, but while it's a little less risky, people are being too quick to assume that Wlad-AJ wasn't already a borderline mismatch.

 

If Wlad does fight Browne, there is hope we could see an AJ - Wlad unification fight next year.

 

You just highlighted yet another example that shows why the casual masses don't know much about boxing at all.

Anybody putting Wlad as the underdog against an extremely crude, slow, unproven hype job (that SP was then) was either just a hater or clueless. HBO was looking to rebuild Wladimir (who had become Steward's chosen protege), so they "almost" effectively sold SP to the masses before serving him up to be a Klitschko victim. SP had fought purely nondescript opposition leading into that 2005 fight.

I picked Wlad to win back then -by KO- as soon as it was announced (though he surprisingly took a "somewhat labored" decision win). So I remember sooooo many people's comments from those days like it was yesterday. Even current AJ has a better chance to win than SP ever did.

The fact that Peter ever won a title at all is a just another nugget of proof that the HW division was devoid of quality after Lewis cleaned it out and Vitali finished it off (prior to his Rahman retirement).

 

If Wlad does fight Browne for the WBA only...then I see this as a path of least resistance to a strap...which he can milk with a few more fights. AJ might well have finished old Wlad off. And what for 15 mill and then he's finished if he lost ? Against Browne he gets an easy route to a strap, ok less money but then he can milk it with a few lower risk fights after this. Seems fishy if he'd not want to fight AJ for 1 strap but he will do the same vs Browne...and all for less money! Risk is too high vs AJ a young improving champ with a 100% KO ratio. Take a lesser route to a single stap and milk it...before retiring or cash out against another strap holder when he's like ready to retire.