klitschkos are not top 20 all time

They were mostly avenged by the brother that lost. And the ones that weren't, come on now, be serious....you know damn good and well they would have been handily avenged with ease. Once again....FLUKE LOSSES! Hell, Wladimir whooped Chris Byrd as if he were a little girl, TWICE. That should make up for Vitali's loss to Byrd, which he was DOMINATING before quitting.

 

Sad to notice US fans cannot oppose ONE current US HW to the Klitschko. Hence they feel they have to oppose their old legends to the Klitschko brothers.
If I were you I would also organize some dream fight "Neanderthal champ vs Wlad" for example. I read that Neanderthals could punch and that they have a solid chin.

 

The problem with that is that the subject is where each Klitschko brother ranks in HW history. And Wlad not avenging his loss to Corrie Sanders, but Vitali doing it, takes away from Wlad's historical standing. The same with Vitali losing to Byrd and Wlad avenging it. Injury, fluke, it is what it is, a loss (not controversial losses, just unfortunate losses) that isn't avenged.

They're being compared among all HWs in history, not among other "brother acts" in boxing like the Marquez brothers, Baer brothers, Spinks brothers, Hagler & Sims, etc...

 

YOU read that? Why not just call Geico, Nikolai, or Wlad for more reliable confirmation?

 

I can't argue with the facts. I was just expressing my thoughts. Nearly all fluke losses nonetheless. However, I'd have to look into it to know what I'm talking about for sure, but I'd imagine that there must have been several heavyweight greats throughout history who didn't avenge every one of their losses. No? Sometimes it is not feasible, for any of one of the many infinite reasons in boxing that fights are not able to be made. But who the hell never loses at least a fight or two during a long career in the heavyweight division anyway, besided Rocky Marciano?

 

Yet, you still understand how every one of those rematches would have played out, right?

 

Sad that you have to bring nationalistic bull**** into the discussion. If you would please be so kind to notice, you will find that the majority of the folks in here praising the Klitschkos are American. You're not ignorant are you? Hopefully that was just a mental lapse on your part. No biggie, it happens to the best of em' at least once in a great while.

 

People can say what they will about the Klitschko's and Lewis, but these cats can fight, are athletic, and would pose problems for most anyone in any era due to their sheer athletic force. I mean Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier were "monsters", Liston was 6 ft & 200-220 lbs, Frazier 5'11 210 or so. Fighters in any era have rarely seen guys of this size, with this kind of skill level, and maybe most importantly this kind of discipline. I'm not saying they would beat everybody, but they would be a serious problem for anyone.

There are guys on this list that either Klitschko crush and they are as follows (obviously my opinion): Jack Dempsey-dude was 6 foot and weighed 180-205 he could seriously get brain damage, Schmeling weighed in at 200 lbs (approximately 196 heaviest), Jersey Joe Walcott 6 foot 170-205 lbs., dude we can do this all day. I also dispute the inclusion of guys that people have never seen fight Corbett, Jefferies etc they are only included because someone else (granted they may be a "respected" someone else) says they should be. These dudes didn't even fight with gloves for God's sake, how in the hell do you evaluate their place? They are small men, fighting bare knuckles in the street and I don't care what anybody says, if Corbett got in the ring with either Klitschko I would beat every nickle I've got, will have, or ever had on Wlad or Vitali would you not? My disagreement may root from a different perspective, my main criteria when deciding "who's the best" is who would win if they fought, there aren't 20 guys you can say would beat these two champions, period.

 

I've taken notice of a few of your posts recently. I also see that you are somewhat of a newcomer. You obviously pay attention. Always good to see a knowledgeabe addition to ESB. Can't complain about the southern hospitality either (usually very respectful in your posts).

 

I think Liston was more of a modern-type heavyweight with his dimensions. Not very tall or heavy, but had ridiculously long arms, a wingspan of 84". Athletic enough too. I think he'd do fine in any era. It's some of the other HWs where I feel the size disadvantage is too much to overcome. Marciano had a 67" reach and would've been a cruiserweight even before the limit rose to 200 lbs.

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That jab gives him a legitimate chance of beating anyone. It wasn't even really a jab. It was more like a shotgun jab.

 

Thank you sir, that was cool of you. I enjoy the site, we are sort of a dying breed, so it's nice to talk boxing beyond "I mean yeah I saw someone fighting on TV the other day...but I don't remember who it was, did you see that one"...atsch

 

No doubt, good point on Liston's freakish reach, but the power of Klitschko jab is more than some of these guys could handle over the course of 12 rounds. Again though, point taken on Liston's reach, he also had the biggest fist of any fighter ever (15"), before Valuev that is. I may be off on that measurement but I'm 90% sure that's right, either way it was the biggest ever I know that...lol.

 

This thread started with a list

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Mike Tyson
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Jack Johnson
6. George Foreman
7. Larry Holmes
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Sonny Liston
10. Joe Frazier

It's not about YOU but it's a general impression and I think I am true. Many US fans consider the brothers are boring and hence the US channels must be fed up with the domination of the brothers (if I were American I would be a bit fed up not to have at least a live contender to be honest...)
They look desperately for a Tyson and it would be far better if this guy was a US boxer in terms of marketability. Notice how an ordinary guy like Arreola was introduced as a savior. The HBO hype was so great that some people still believe he is in the top 5. The guy had never beaten a top 20 !

 

Your first post I responded to didn't come off that way. This one here, I mostly agree with. The fact that not a single American heavyweight comes anywhere near either Klitschko IS frustrating, just as it is painfully true (I'm referring to the majority of the population, I love the Klitschkos, I don't care where fighters are from for the most part). HBO seems to have abandoned them, yet hyped them plenty the whole time. HBO is a business, so the ratings must have dictated their decision to go in the direction they have gone. The general American public thrives for "gratification now", hence outrageously overrates Mike Tyson, as well as the reason for the emergence of the hideous, sorry excuse for a "sport", UFC, for example. HBO had no choice but to hype Arreola, garbage fighter or not. He's the best we have in our most beloved division, as sad as that is to admit.

Aside from the nationalistic thing, I regret to say this, but I believe many fans are fans and many haters are haters due to race. Not all, by any means, just many.

On a side note, Euros hate to hear this, but since we're all being truthful here....I think the main reason for the alleged decline in quality of fighters in the heavyweight division, particularly in the U.S., is undoubtedly due to today's major sports (which boxing is not) in America. Several EXTRAORDINARY athletes who may have very well went into boxing are instead playing in the NFL or the NBA. I have a feeling that folks overseas haven't the slightest idea what the athletes in these sports are getting paid today. Compare today's salaries with those in the 60's and 70's, and you have your answer. Boxing was once huge in America, but is now overshadowed by at least 10 sports and their athletes in America.