Knocking out Prime LaMotta?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by la-califa, Jun 18, 2009.


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  1. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :good Good post
     
    Bummy Davis, Jun 19, 2009
    Bummy Davis, Jun 19, 2009
    #61
  2. mckay_89

    mckay_89 Haw you! Full Member

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    LaMotta's chin was out of this world, a prime Roy Jones could possibly land so much on him that a modern ref would stop the fight and there's always the chance that some of the truly great middleweights like Hagler on Monzon may catch him with a flash knockdown if they fought him a good few times but i don't believe there's anyone in history who catches him cold.
     
    mckay_89, Jun 19, 2009
    mckay_89, Jun 19, 2009
    #62
  3. shommel

    shommel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    the only time lamotta was ever knocked down was by danny nardico and this was a very shopworn used up lamotta. i have the film and jake took a tremendous right .then it looks as if he was pushed down. however he didnt stay down and took a terrible beating in the corner while holding on to the rope so he wouldnt go down again .as he walks back to his corner at the bell you can see him locking his knees out just to stay on his feet and to get back to his corner. then he doesnt come out for the next round
     
    shommel, Jun 19, 2009
    shommel, Jun 19, 2009
    #63
  4. flamengo

    flamengo Coool as a Cucumber. Full Member

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    Ketchell??????????????? Get serious. Jake would rip the head from Ketchells shoulders. Over rated. The most over rated M/W in the first half of the century.
     
    flamengo, Jun 19, 2009
    flamengo, Jun 19, 2009
    #64
  5. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    You can't generate as much power from short range, period. You expect he'd be able to KO Jake LaMotta with short, digging inside punches? I think that might get his attention, not much else. Based on the film, Fitz wasn't a combination puncher (just like everyone else from that era), not a good one anyway, so I can't see any way he stops him even if he does land flush with one of those wide, looping shots.

    IMO, the only way he's going to land anything with enough mustard on it to get Jake's attention is by landing one of those winging bombs, which is why I give him little chance of doing it. I don't see where in-fighting even plays into this, as there's no way anyone is KO'ing Jake with short range punches like that.

    And where do you get off saying Corbett had better punch resistance than LaMotta? Because of his size?
     
    Sweet Pea, Jun 19, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Jun 19, 2009
    #65
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Against Firtz, Corbett tried to close the distance, and Fitz threw up a hard, straightish punch which was perfectly timed. There was nothing wild or swinging about this shot - it was accurate, timed. Exactly the type of shot that I would expect Fitz to hurt Jake with.

    Against Maher, Fitzsimmons employed a punch so quick and sudden that there was roaring about a fix - the punch was delivered against a swarming opponent, again with such accuracy and force that the opponent was unable to continue.

    Against Mayo (not a great scalp or anything), Fitz shows great skill, according to reports, in selling a feint and then delivering a one punch knock out.

    LaMotta will swarm just like Maher will. He will close the gap much less carefully than Corbett did. Unless your position is that Fitz is actually spastic about his punches - which I don't think it is - he has a huge style advantage, and has proven his knockout abilities in these situations.

    Yes. This is not a pound for pound argument, because Fitz was one of the guys who closed that gap. Corbett is a durable cruiserweight who absorbed helations beatings from big men and LaMotta is an iron-chinned middleweight. At the very least Fitz has stopped men with comaparable punch resistance with one punch.
     
    McGrain, Jun 19, 2009
    McGrain, Jun 19, 2009
    #66
  7. northernstar83

    northernstar83 Northernstar83 Full Member

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    I reckon ennox could do it :D
     
    northernstar83, Jun 19, 2009
    northernstar83, Jun 19, 2009
    #67
  8. northernstar83

    northernstar83 Northernstar83 Full Member

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    Oops Lennox i mean lol
     
    northernstar83, Jun 19, 2009
    northernstar83, Jun 19, 2009
    #68
  9. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Nar i think Lamotta would outslick him on the outside, wide ud:lol::lol:
     
    teeto, Jun 19, 2009
    teeto, Jun 19, 2009
    #69
  10. northernstar83

    northernstar83 Northernstar83 Full Member

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    I think Tyson probably couldn't do it either :)
     
    northernstar83, Jun 19, 2009
    northernstar83, Jun 19, 2009
    #70
  11. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Fitz stopped Corbett with a left hook body shot to the solar plexus after Corbett had been gradually tiring over the past few rounds. I'm not sure what you're referring to, here.

    Any footage of this? The reason I don't take these claims seriously is because the footage that does exist is simply not at all impressive. Therefore I'm going to be skeptical about written reports on fighters of this era.

    They seemed to feint a lot back then. That doesn't necessarily mean they did it masterfully. It seemed to be just another skill that was used, but in its infancy.

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    How do you figure? Corbett looked wide open and tired when Fitz landed the body shot for the win. I think LaMotta's educated pressure would be a much more difficult task, personally.

    I just don't think he's skilled enough (nor were his opponents), from what I've seen, to throw the kind of accurate, fluid combinations that would be needed to take out a fighter like Jake. Fighters of that era hardly threw combinations at all, and rarely ever were they technically sound combinations from what I've seen. It all comes down to what is available on film, and sorry, Fitz looks terrible on film, regardless of what vague stylistic edge he seems to hold based on reports.

    Who did Corbett take these beatings from to prove his durability?

    LaMotta was more or less a natural LHW, while most of the guys Fitz fought, like Maher, weighed in around 180. Not much of a difference there, and none of them had proven their durability (or skills, IMO) like Jake. Also, for this bout to take place at MW, Fitz would have to weigh in under the 160 pound limit rather than the roughly 170 he typically weighed for these bouts.
     
    Sweet Pea, Jun 20, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Jun 20, 2009
    #71
  12. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I doubt any middleweight could do it although would be interesting if he could stand up to Choynski shots.
     
    Minotauro, Jun 20, 2009
    Minotauro, Jun 20, 2009
    #72
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    ...obviously, the same punch.

    What I said was, the written reports talk of the suprise at Maher's collapse. Nobdoy saw the punch. You can take this to mean that it was a slow punch, rather than a fast punch, as I have suggested if you like, but that seems to make less sense.

    Throw the feint out then - stick with the one punch knock out.

    LaMotta looked tired and wide open when Sugar Ray stopped him. The point is, LaMotta is always coming forwards and always there to be hit, to some degree. Sounds like a total and utter disaster against a power-punching trap-smith with limited boxing ability to me. Corbett, contrarily, is using the ring, using lateral movement, trying to stay away and pick his shots.

    But why are you getting so hung up on combinations? I've provided a short, incomplete list of Fitz's one punch KO's, that's the entire point. Fitz hits very very hard at with single blows. He's one of the hardest hitting men below 200 in history I think. Jake is there to be hit. And so what if he looks terrible to you? His power is indeputable, and nothing you've said to me seems to indicate you think he is incapbale of landing against this head-first pressure fighter.

    The second fight against Jeffries would seem to be the defining beating. LaMotta, having succumbed to Robinson in 13, wouldn't at a guess, be able to absorb such a beating form a puncher like Jeffries who was around 210 for that fight.

    Given that Jake fought most of his light-heavyweight contests at or around the super-middleweight limit, I think this is spurios claim. I think he weighed in at 175 twice in a hundred plus fights?
     
    McGrain, Jun 20, 2009
    McGrain, Jun 20, 2009
    #73
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    If anyone is going to do it its Stanley Ketchel Mcgrain. Ketchel hit just as hard as Fitzsimmons, except was faster than Fitz in his prime. But I dont think Ketchel or Fitz would floor lamotta, let alone knock him out. No one at 160 could floor lamotta. It took flush after flush punches from one of the hardest 175lb hitters of the era, danny nardico, to FINALLY put a far past his prime lamotta down.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 20, 2009
    SuzieQ49, Jun 20, 2009
    #74
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    So your saying you think fitz is capable of knocking lamotta out with one blow? I strongly disagree.


    Lamotta was not only well past his prime here, he was also weight drained. Sugar Ray STILL COULD NOT PUT HIM DOWN.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 20, 2009
    SuzieQ49, Jun 20, 2009
    #75
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