I think most of the forum are enjoying top 10 lists of the 80's from a solid source. It's not like it's a 50 thread list or anything and too bad if it was. Do you have a problem with it?
It's my pleasure John, great discussion for sure. Let's not forget Pea's early big win over Mayweather too. I guess It boils down to what you prefer......pure, real dominance over perhaps a shorter time or more time in the rankings with somewhat mixed results.
It was a good win over Mayweather but would you agree he was in a bit of a lull going in? He already had losses to Lockridge, Baltazar, Chavez and Pendleton 14-13-1 (KO loss 12 months before the Whitaker fight) behind him. Roger did bounce back reasonably to win a title at 140.
He was still very much world class, and he deserved the decision in the Baltazar fight. Especially coming so relatively early in Whitaker's career it was quite a feather in the cap.
Balthazar was a bad decision and Pendleton had vastly improved after early career mismanagement. Sandwiched between his KO of Mayweather, Pendleton lost a decision to the reigning IBF champ Paul, winning three or four of the 10 rounds, then had a 12 round Draw with Frankie Randall, who had narrowly lost to Rosario the year before. Mayweather was ahead on points when he got caught by Pendleton. In the preceding two years, Mayweather had beaten perennial 130 lb contender Mario Martinez, prospect Kenny Baysmore and Sammy Fuentes, who had kod Harry Arroyo the year before. Mayweather had great skills, and already had a wealth of experience. He just had the Achilles heel bad chin, which a still maturing Whitaker could not fully exploit, though he did drop him. Mayweather was a big step up for Whitaker who was engaging in just his 12th professional fight. It was a very solid win as he comprehensively outboxed the skilled Mayweather. But, I do agree that Whitaker should not be #1 on this list. I would put him around 6th.
Six sounds about right. I know all about Pendleton, guy was a superb fighter when he was on. He was the "best fighter with a bad record" of his day at one point lol. I'd actually forgotten how short a stay Whitaker had at 135 all up but by the time he left he was certainly performing at an exceptional level. Exceptional enough for Matt Mac to whack him in at #4 on his lightweight list. In reality he is unbeaten there.
My first reaction when I saw Rosario at no. 1 was 'that's wrong!'. I guess he's no. 1 by default but it doesn't sit right. I think this list shows the difference between the 70s, 80s and 90s lightweight eras - not much possible debate over the no. 1 from the 70s or 90s but there is no clear no. 1 for the 80s. You have Rosario who was the dominant lightweight presence but was probably not even top 3 in terms of the best fighting talent to compete there (Arguello, Chavez, Whitaker... and maybe Camacho). Arguello was WBC champ for two years and had already beaten Mancini, the WBA champ, so was effectively undisputed champ during that period. But then he didn't fight there at all in the second year as he was fighting Pryor. Chavez beat El Chapo in a brilliant performance and partially unified by beating Ramirez, all in the space of a year... and then he was gone too. Losing to Ramirez, Camacho and Chavez hardly seems worthy of the no. 1 spot to me. Perhaps no. 1 should have been declared vacant?
At the end of the day number 1 in this is just a number and no big proclamation in this case i guess. Chapo does get it by default but the others just didn't spend enough time there. It just means the top couple of fighters visited briefly. If you were doing a H2H list with hindsight involved as well then Chavez, Arguello and Whitaker would be the standouts. Someone has to be number 1 and for many it can't be a guy that barely fought there etc. Rosario has one convincing loss there against a guy that could well have beaten any of them. The Camacho fight is controversial and he is 1-1 with Ramirez tho that first fight was a bit controversial as well.
Pernell. Probably Mosley and De La Hoya are the runners up. Unless there's someone else obvious I'm missing?
Whitaker had 6 fights total at 135 in the 90's and was gone for good by the start of 92. Pendleton, Nelson, Nazario, Jones, Diaz and Paez. Two good wins. He probably did more at 135 in the 80's. We'd have to have a look at what others got done but it'd be a poor decade if those 6 fights and sub 2 years got the chocolates.
Wasn't convinced About Rosario's number#1 ranking but Philly you've made a very valid argument for him. And your logic is sound (But's that's usual) In my opinion he was a little too inconsistent against the best competition he faced to have the number#1 position of the decade. But I certainly understand your point t of view.