Kostya Tszyu

Chavez has a resume that absolutely shamed Tszyu's.

 

I don't think he ranks tha high head to head. Hes very good but is limited, his defense is open, he wasn't hard to hit, could be backed up and outbrawled, could be outboxed.

I think he loses if he got in with the best of his time: Mayweather, Whitaker, Delahoya, Trinidad, Quartey.

His best wins ledger is weak:

Hurtado: stopped faster by Vivian Harris
Ukral: Viv Harris stopped him Tyszu couldnt
Judah: beaten by every elite hes faced
Mitchell: Stevie Johnstons leftovers
Tackie: journeyman
Leija: shot and delahoya leftovers
Ruelas: delahoya leftovers
Roger Mayweather: shot to pieces
Chavez: shot to pieces

 

Top 3 at 140 H2H?

That's a huge call. Look at all the guys that fought at 140

Aaron Pryor
Julio Cesar Chavez
Alexis Arguello
Jose Napoles
Pernell Whitaker
Oscar de la Hoya
Antonio Cervantes
Wilfred Benitez
Nicolino Locche
Duilio Loi
Tony Canzoneri
Jackie Kid Berg

Only two of these guys are better h2h than Tszyu at 140?

And that's not even including guys that never fought in the division but were around the weight that could have easily made it like:

Packey McFarland
Barney Ross
Roberto Duran
Ike Williams
Henry Armstrong
Shane Mosley

 

I'll give Tszyu very good chances to beat all of the above, except Pryor, Whitaker, and undecided about Locche.

 

Sugar Ray Robinson fought his first 22 or so fights below 140lbs and beat HOFamers weighing below 140lbs

Tyszu just isnt in the same class of the likes of SRR, Duran, PBF, Pryor and from his own era doesn't look as good as Whitaker, Delahoya, Mosley, PBF

When all is said and done Tyszu hasn't fought the best of his own era: Delahoya, Mosley, Cotto, Mayweather, Whitaker

 

Robinson only fought within 140lbs limit during his first year as a pro, while he was still green.

 

He beat Angott at 136, Servo at 141, Zivic at 139 and 141. These wins are on par with Tyszus best

He fought at 142 after the second Lamotta fight, bare in mind these are weights the day of the fight without cutting to make weight. Tyszu would be around 150 the day of the fight

 

Angott was a lightweight without a hard punch. Zivic gave Robinson all kind of troubles in their first fight. Sorry, but I'm not of very high opinion about Servo.
142 1/2 is 2.5 lbs above the limit, regardless of when the weigh-in was.

 

I wouldn't have Tszyu in (or really all that near) my top 100, but I will say a few things for him:

He was willing to go the States time and time again to make fights happen when he could have stayed in Australia and got fairly big crowds with some of his defences. He proved himself on the road, and that is definitely something to distinguish him from a lot of other so called greats who got everything on a platter in their own back yards.

The other thing is that he beat a lot of good fighters in more dominant fashion than anyone else was able to:

e.g.

- He beat Zab Judah in a much more convicing fashion than Mayweather or even Cotto were able to.

- He gave Miguel Angel Gonzalez an absolute bath when guys like DLH were not able to do it quite as well (true, MAG was probably starting to slide a bit at the time, but still, Tszyu monstered him)

- No one before or since destroyed Sharmba Mitchell like Tszyu did in the rematch. (And for the record I think Tszyu had Mitchell well and truly covered in the first fight. Leg injury or no, Tszyu would have won that fight, and imo, he would have knocked him out late even if he had no injury).

- He did at least as well against Urkal as Miguel Cotto was able to do and Cotto was facing a much older, fading Urkal. Urkal was a good fighter btw, that's one of Tszyu's most underrated wins.

 

The point is Robinson could have easily made 140 up until his second Lamotta fight and whipped Tyszu silly. He had no reason to make 140 so did not, the division meant nothing back then. Who knows SRR may have even made 140 in his prime

Zivic is still arguably a better win than anyone Tyszus beat. So what if SRR had a hard time with him, he didnt get destoyed by Vince Phillips, Zivic may well have backed up and drowned Tyszu like Phillips and Hatton did

Angott had no punch? Since when were Mitchell/Ukral/Hurtado big punchers? Boxings about more than punch

 

How do you know Robinson could "easily" make 140? He had outgrown that weight quickly, he was big even for welterweight, being a natural light middleweight.

And regardless, I'm not discussing resumes here. I honestly do not like Tszyu and feel his resume is quite weak, but head to head he was very good.

 

Modern boxing with day prior weighins means you can simply skip breakfast and make weight if your weighing 145 the day of the fight making 140 is not a big deal, some 140lbers weigh around 160lbs on fight night (cotto/gatti/hatton). SRR didnt try to drop weight to make 142 so if he actually tried he would be making 135 or even as low as 130 in his younger years if he cuts water.

Head to head Tyszu was good but limited, he showed many weaknesses, defense he was easy to tag, offensively he was a little predictable, toe-toe he could be outbrawled, his punching power was overrated from 2 ko wins. I'm sure he'd beat many top 140lbers of the last 40years, but he may lose to many too, Cervantes, Arguello and Loche for instance are all tough calls to make

Tyszu weighed 150 day of the fight, Robinson weighed 140-147, if anything Robinson makes 140 easier than Tyszu with today's weigh ins the day before the fight

Honestly my quarrel isn't with Tyszu, hes a smashing bloke, its the people who claim Tyszu/Pryor/Chavez were the best ever in their weight class, ie 140, the division just hasn't been round that long as a competitive division.

 

Cervantes was primitive. Arguello, from all the footage I've seen of him, is not as impressive as some people here tend to describe him, I can't forget how he was thoroughly outboxed by Olivares, it wasn't even competitive, despite Arguello changing his tactics several times, he was too predictable, too up-straight and easy to hit. Locche, I'm undesided only because I am not sure that Tszyu doesn't choose to attempt to defeat him the physical way. He he thinks he's the stronger man and can wear Locche down or knock him out, he loses. If he boxes, and doesn't let Locche impose his favorite game, he will outpoint Locche the same way Frazer had done it.

 

are you shitting me? Foster beat dick tiger, Eddie Cotton, Allen Thomas, Henry Hank, Roger Rouse, Chris Finnegan. Much better.

Sonny Liston has a strong resume though. Floyd Patterson 2x, Cleveland Williams 2x, Eddie Machen, Zora Folley, Nino Valdez, Johnny Summerlin 2x, Mike Dejohn



What in your opinion is an example of a strong resume? certainly not roy jones who failed to take on many of the best of his era

 

The best win on Foster's resume, over Dick Tiger, is equal to Jones' win over Mike McCallum, which is far from best win on Roy's resume.