Kovalev and Ward vs Roy jones

He messed Nunn about something awful, the same with Liles and Rocchigiani.

His own father didn't want him to fight Jackson or Mcclellan because, and I quote, they "punched too hard". How much of that is on Jones and how much of that is on his father? Jackson and Mclellan were the #1 rated middleweights from 1990 to 1995.

Roy Jones was Nigel Benn's WBC mandatory at SMW for over a year, Jones was also the WBC Intercontinental champ at the time. Instead of fighting Benn he dropped back down to 160 to fight for a vacant belt. Benn also at the time had travelled to America twice to KO Iran Barkley and DeWitt so it's not like he wasn't willing to travel like DM.


I agree that it was Hopkins who didn't want the Jones fight now. @Loudon swayed me on that. I also now think that in reality Jones didn't duck Eubank, Calzaghe or DM.


It's just a crying shame that a guy with so much ability didn't make the best fights available at 160, 168 or 175.

EDIT: I forgot to add, it also seems that Roy had a reluctance to fight guys who had beaten him in the amateurs. Although I'm happy to be wrong on that, it's just what it seems like on paper.

 

Like he folded against Tarver in their first fight, when he was absolutely exhausted? Yeah.

You think Andre would have stopped Roy? Ha!

Roy was knocked out in his 51st fight, at 35 years of age. So surely even your little pea brain has to acknowledge that he had to have been a damn good fighter to have lasted that long carrying china in his chin, yes?

Why do you even bother contributing on these types of threads?

All you do is embarrass yourself, and I knew exactly what you'd typed before I'd even read your post.

Run along you clown.

 

I agree that they should both have better resumes. But the circumstances between them were completely different.

Although they both missed guys, Roy always showed more ambition.

Joe was the guy who was still fighting the Mkrtchyan's of the world in his 30's.

Joe was the guy who starved himself to stay at SMW in the early 00's, even though he knew he couldn't unify the division and there wasn't anything else on the horizon at the time.

Joe was the guy who continually bragged of his number of WBO defences.

It was nothing to do with bad management. Joe was more than content to do what he was doing. Nobody makes 21 defences of a lightly regarded belt if they don't want to.

 

I agree he messed Nunn around. I have no real issue with people saying Roy ducked him. But again, I have evidence that proves that Roy tried to fight Frankie Liles the previous year. So how logical is it that a guy who feared looking bad/losing to a faded Nunn in 1997, would have pursued a fighter like Liles in 1996? It just doesn't make sense to me. Liles would have presented Roy with huge problems. It would have been a stylistic nightmare for him. Also, Liles had beaten him as an amateur, and he'd beaten Nunn. Personally, I think he felt he was in a no-win situation with Nunn, and he was high risk for low reward. But again, in my honest opinion, in 1997, Nunn was no better than Liles or Tarver. And Tarver had to have been a bigger challenge to him in 2003. Because at that point, Roy was almost 35, he'd had almost 50 fights, and he had to burn actual muscle just to make weight, dropping back from HW. So in my honest opinion, it must have been a tougher proposition that fighting Nunn at 28 in his prime.

 

Ha! That made me laugh out loud.

 

I don't see how it would have been a 50/50 fight, not with the evidence that's available.

Roy not having fought Dariusz shouldn't affect anyone's opinion on a fantasy fight against Andre and Sergey.

Regarding Roy fighting Tarver in the amateurs, they were about 14 years old at the time.

 

I'll come and have a look mate.

I miss the old posters who I used to debate with.

I think what stopped me from joining when it was first created, is that I thought it wasn't busy enough. But that was a long time ago now.

Great to hear from you.

 

Who else?

We'll discuss them.

 

His SMW reign was weak. But you've got to look at the circumstances and the choice of action he took.

Along with his advisors - the Levin brothers, he found it extremely difficult to work with Don King. Which meant that it was extremely difficult to try and unify the division against Liles and Benn. When a compromise couldn't be reached, Roy moved up to LHW for a fresh challenge.

Joe Calzaghe was presented with a similar dilemma in the early 00's. He couldn't get Hopkins to come up to SMW, and he and Frank W, couldn't get Ottke or Beyer in the ring to unify. But the difference was: Roy moved up, whilst Joe remained where he was. He continued to fight at SMW, hoping for other opportunities further down the line. Now he obviously got those opportunities when had huge fights with Lacy and Kessler in 2006 and 2007. But he obviously couldn't have foreseen those future fights back in 2003 and 2004. So in my honest opinion, it was a lack of ambition on Joe's part when he remained at SMW. Now back in 1996, Roy could also have remained at SMW. He could have done that and stacked up numerous defences of his IBF title. But he didn't. So although his SMW reign was weak with only about 7 fights in 2 years, it was only due to his circumstances at the time.

 

Regarding Liles, Roy didn't mess him around.

I've shown you the in-ring interview that was conducted before Roy fought Bryant Brannon, and I've shown you the interview that Liles' manager, Jack O'Halloran, gave a few years ago.

Here's another article discussing the matter:

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/jones-time-punch-article-1.732216


Regarding your comments on Jackson and Gerald punching too hard, that was taken from an interview with Julian Jackson from a few years ago:

http://www.boxinginsider.com/headlines/keeping-up-with-julian-jackson/


The above comments are only Jackson's opinion on the matter. And whilst you're free to take them into account, you really need to understand the complex matters that were happening behind the scenes at the time. They involved: Roy Snr, Roy's advisors - the Levin brothers, and Don King. The main issues were: King and the Levin's didn't like or trust each other, and the Levin's had a contract for Roy with HBO, whilst King's stable of fighters had a contract with their rivals - Showtime.

Have a look at the following interviews, reports, and book excerpts, looking at the difficulties regarding contract negotiations, potential fights with the likes of Jackson and Benn, and the relationship between Roy, Don King, and the Levin's. They're very interesting, and I'm sure they will provide you with a different outlook once you've read them:


http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/21/sports/boxing-notebook-on-a-bumpy-road-to-big-money.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/13/s...ks-king-s-delivery-and-lands-his-punches.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/15/sports/boxing-an-undercard-winner-becomes-main-attraction.html

https://www.si.com/vault/1995/07/03...e-merciful-pounding-delivered-by-roy-jones-jr

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/jones-paint-pazienza-canvas-article-1.689888

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...=0ahUKEwjM08jXqNDUAhWmBcAKHclkDyU4ChDoAQgiMAI

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ved=0ahUKEwiBj-Sgq9DUAhXsDsAKHc42B5gQ6AEIJTAC

(Fred Levin took on a case against Don King)
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives...trinidad-latest-sue-promoter-article-1.709573

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives...es-adviser-wary-stacked-deck-article-1.693936


Regarding your opinion on his reluctance to fight guys who beat him in the amateurs, I don't think it holds water.

He lost to Gerald, Tim Littles and Frankie Liles. But he also beat Liles twice to go the Olympics.

When he turned pro, again, he tried to fight Liles in 1996. Obviously he never fought Gerald or Littles, but Gerald's career was obviously cut short, and Toney had taken Littles out about 6 months before he fought Roy in 1994.

If you're interested, there's 3 great interviews with "Iceman" John Scully, discussing Roy's fights with the aforementioned names, including a great piece featuring how Roy was fortunate to go through to the 88 Olympics in Seoul.

John was a part of Roy's camp back then, and he offers a candid look of how things were back in the amateurs around the late 80's-early 90's. He's a great man, and I believe he's still a member here. If you have the time, they're well worth a read. They're full of very interesting facts. I thoroughly enjoyed reading them.

https://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/104565

http://www.fighthype.com/news/article18324.html

http://fightbeat.com/forums/threads/23506/


I look forward to your response.

 

Jones is probably the most unbeatable fighter H2H in history his style was very difficult to look good against let alone beat going with Jones for both fighters

 

I hope Roy Jones has small balls. If Roy has big balls then Ward "'beats" him easily.

 

They would have been very difficult fights, but I think Roy would had to have been favoured over them.

 

Roy smokes both. Kovalev is too hittable and Ward is too much of an inferior athlete to outbox him since they're on even grounds in terms of IQ.

 

I agree, but I don't think he'd have smoked them.