Kudos to Povetkin and the Heavyweight Division

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by seldomseenslim, Jan 27, 2008.


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  1. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    im sorry man but not only do i think your totally wrong seldomseenslim, i think your idea hurts boxing very badly, and it a bit asburd...

    the heavyweight division is iconic in sports... to carve it up for the need of smaller heavyweights to me is just WRONG... jesuz.. im not quite sure you realise the consequences (sorry if it is spelled wrong) of those actions would be..

    200 - 4 champion mess
    220 -4 more champions
    242 - 4 more champions
    and so on and so forth...

    horrible, horrible idea...

    dude, the problem with todays boxing is too many champions, and too many weight classes, and thats one of the PLUSES that heavyweights have going for them.... also add to that that any man over 200lbs, from 200-250lbs... is fighting for the iconic, heavyweight champion of the world title...

    if someone weighs NATURALLY 205.... then they could drop 15lbs to cruiser... im sorry man but you have to accept that not EVERYONE is going to fair well in boxing... and if you are an undersized heavyweight, like i said, you will have to excell at your advantages... or drop weight. its that simple.

    and please.... anyone who weighs in at 205 as a heavyweight can and would drop to cruiser...

    James Toney, a former MIDDLEWEIGHT fought holyfield IN SHAPE and weighed around 215lbs...

    Roy jones jr... another former middleweight, fought and beat ruiz at 190 something pounds...

    chris byrd fought and was champion fighting at around 210lbs...

    all these guys could have dropped to cruiser... yet these guys wanted to fight for that iconic title, for that iconic recognition... to go down in history... not only does your idea hurt boxing, it keeps these guys from fighting for the same title that ali had, that foreman had, that tyson had, that lewis had... come on.

    The heavyweight division is fine the way it is... they are HEAVYWEIGHTS... its iconic to our sport and the world... splitting it up is a horrible idea, to bend over backwards for fighters who dont have the size and skill to compete... because as toney, byrd, and jones have shown... small men have their advantages and if they have the skills they will do their damage....

    thats the magic of the heavyweight division, diversity.
     
    kirk, Jan 28, 2008
    kirk, Jan 28, 2008
    #61
  2. T.S.

    T.S. T.Stout Full Member

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    I liked Mesi until Jirov bashed his brains in (Rabbit punches or not) but to continue boxing after damage to the brain would be insane. I know he's got the guts to continue and can always pay off a doctor to give him clearance but I'd hate to see him get hit again. His story is rather tragic "waste" of talent.

    Same with Lamon Brewster. I don't want to see this guy go blind after getting mauled twice in a row.

    Best chance of a non "Soviet" Champ right now is Sam Peter who I like a lot and expect him to beat aging rusty Maskaev but that's what everyone said during Rahman rematch and look what happened there!
    Maskaev is always underestimated :huh
    Maybe Maskaev still has something left we'll see :good
     
    T.S., Jan 28, 2008
    T.S., Jan 28, 2008
    #62
  3. sthomas

    sthomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Don't taint Povetkin's victory with this racial crap. I'm a white American guy and I think the current heavyweights are way better than critics give them credit for. But that's the only common ground that you and I share. I don't care where a fighter comes from or what they look like. I just want good fighters. Overhyped black American champs? Get serious. Ali, Holmes, young Tyson, Marciano, Louis, Dempsey, Tunny, J. Johnson. These guys were not overhyped.
     
    sthomas, Jan 28, 2008
    sthomas, Jan 28, 2008
    #63
  4. sthomas

    sthomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not true. Tyson is a good example. Valuev is another good example. Joe Choynski is the best example, 165-175 lbs. 4 champs: J.Johnson, Corbett, Sullivan, and Jefferies all said noone ever hit them harder than Joe.
     
    sthomas, Jan 28, 2008
    sthomas, Jan 28, 2008
    #64
  5. sthomas

    sthomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I like Wlad, but he's been KO'd by 2 AMERICANS. Must be overrated.
     
    sthomas, Jan 28, 2008
    sthomas, Jan 28, 2008
    #65
  6. seldomseenslim

    seldomseenslim Member Full Member

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    Kirk - I agree that there are too many so-called champs and weight divisions, but the excess weight divisions are all in the lighter classes. Heavyweights, for whatever reason - improved diet and training, steroids - are MUCH bigger and stronger now than they used to be. Heavyweight champs used to often be ~ 185 pounds. The Olympics and amateurs now have a super-heavyweight class, and I say the pros need to AT LEAST that. It is not fair to tell somebody whose natural weight may be in the low 200's to "lose weight." Why not tell the lighter guys to lose their TWO OR THREE pounds? they were even calling Povetkin - at 227 - a "small heavyweight"! getting the Cruiserweight division from them was like pulling teeth - and if not for that, a guy who weighs 175 would still be in the heavyweight division!
     
    seldomseenslim, Jan 28, 2008
    seldomseenslim, Jan 28, 2008
    #66
  7. seldomseenslim

    seldomseenslim Member Full Member

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    And Corrie Sanders fights later this week - for the South African championship.
     
    seldomseenslim, Jan 28, 2008
    seldomseenslim, Jan 28, 2008
    #67
  8. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    i just dont see the substance of your argument, we will have to agree to disagree ;) i for one am glad they are not doing this, and never will hopefully
     
    kirk, Jan 28, 2008
    kirk, Jan 28, 2008
    #68
  9. seldomseenslim

    seldomseenslim Member Full Member

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    Well, the next time you are standing next to some guy who is a head taller than you and outweighs you by 50 or 100 pounds, think about how it would feel to step into the ring with him.
     
    seldomseenslim, Jan 28, 2008
    seldomseenslim, Jan 28, 2008
    #69
  10. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    lol.. the fact of the matter is that if your THAT undersized... then its not ment for you... PERIOD.

    dude, chagaeve beat valuev, ruiz almost beat valuev... byrd beat vitali, byrd beat mccline, brock beat mccline... guinn beat doki, guinn beat grant

    i could go on and on and on and on and on on small guys beating the bigger men with their abilities and spirit...

    its the HEAVYWEIGHT division... if your good enough, you will compete with the other heavyweights... if you cant, then drop down (which again, is not as hard as your making it seem for a heavyweight) or just deal with it...

    im sorry, im not going to feel sorry for 205lb fighters to the point of making a whole new division for them... lol.. that is ABSURD. drop to cruiser... or man up and fight.

    its been done throughout history, and will continue to do so...
     
    kirk, Jan 28, 2008
    kirk, Jan 28, 2008
    #70
  11. RUSKULL

    RUSKULL Loyal Member banned

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    That's only partially true.

    Briggs gave Lewis all he could handle in the first couple of rounds.

    Lewis is a top 10 ATG Heavy.

    Shannon's power is huge & he has a chance to KO just about anybody for that reason alone. Power is also one of the last traits to go when a fighter ages so don't give me that "old" BS either.

    Truth is Liakhovich was beating Briggs in a shitty fight before he got stupid & got KO'd in the final seconds of the final round.
     
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    #71
  12. RUSKULL

    RUSKULL Loyal Member banned

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    Ali was extremely talented & gifted but let's not make like he was always exciting to watch, okay? He was a fairly dirty fighter also with A LOT of holding, holding & hitting, etc. I recall many of his fights where he didn't do **** but cover up for the first few rounds.
     
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    #72
  13. RUSKULL

    RUSKULL Loyal Member banned

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    Well done Chris. I didn't see your post or you would've saved me a bit of typing. :yep Like I said, he's only partially correct.

    So far the 90's were better but we have 2 years left to see what the 2000's have in store.
     
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    #73
  14. RUSKULL

    RUSKULL Loyal Member banned

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    Quite honestly that's dumber than anything Slim has written IMO.

    Wlad would kill Morrison as would Briggs, Chagaev or Ibragimov, and Maskaev & Peter are 50/50 fights at best for Tommy. I was a fan of Tommey too but let's keep it realistic.
     
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    #74
  15. RUSKULL

    RUSKULL Loyal Member banned

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    Edge to David Haye based on power & early aggression, and I hate Haye too.

    However Povetkin's chances go up sharply the longer the fight goes since Povetkin has shown awesome stamina & Haye's stamina & chin are ****.
     
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    RUSKULL, Jan 28, 2008
    #75
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