[LA Times, 1988] Hearns Rejects Offer to Fight Nunn : Arum Says Fighter Spurned $2 Million

Good thread article ^^^^.
Here's one on the Toney right hands that find Nunn's chin late in the fight.

1991-05-10 : Michael Nunn 160 lbs lost to James Toney 157 lbs by TKO at 2:14 in round 11 of 12

• Location: John O'Donnell Stadium, Davenport, Iowa, USA
• Referee: Dennis Nelson
• Judge: Gary Merritt 97-93
• Judge: Bob Watson 99-91
• Judge: Dalby Shirley 98-92

International Boxing Federation Middleweight Title (6th defense by Nunn)

• Toney was ranked fifth at middleweight by the IBF.
• Nunn was a 20-1 favorite.
• Nunn's purse was $500,000 and Toney's was $65,000.
• Toney angered Nunn with constant trash talk, and Nunn promised to give him a beating. "I'm going to punish him," Nunn said. "I'm going to enjoy punishing this guy."

Toney expected Nunn to run. "He's going to find out it's no damn disco," he said. "I'll pressure him until he has to fight."

Nunn did move, but not as much as expected. Mostly he stood in front of Toney, fending off attacks with a hard jab and jarring the challenger with combinations. For five rounds Nunn fought brilliantly.

Following the fifth, Toney told [trainer Bill] Miller, "He's tiring. I can hear him breathing like a freight train. I'm going to step up the pressure."

At the end of seven rounds Nunn was ahead by three points on one judge's card, by five on another and by seven on the third. "You're losing it, son. You're losing it," Miller told Toney. "You've got to press him even more."

"Don't worry about it," said Toney. "He's not going the distance."

Nunn appeared tired in the eighth. He tarried too long in front of Toney, who found him repeatedly with jolting right hands. "Jab and move," trainer Angelo Dundee screamed at Nunn from the corner. "Get out of there. Move!"

"He's not hurting me," Nunn replied.

A minute into the 11th round of the scheduled 12-rounder, Toney missed with five hard punches. The last swing carried him face first across the ropes. Undaunted, he turned and hit Nunn with a right to the head. Nunn moved away, shaken. A little later the champion dropped his hands. He never saw the left hook that snapped his head violently sideways and put him on his back. A collective moan swept through the stadium. The last train was leaving town, and Toney wasn't on it.

Rising unsteadily at the count of nine, Nunn said to referee Denny Nelson, "I'm all right." He said it twice. He was wrong both times.

Only pure courage kept him on his feet. Like a Doberman chasing raw meat, Toney charged. A right uppercut turned Nunn around, and a looping right to the back of the neck draped him across the ropes. As Nunn turned toward the ring, two right hands to the head dropped him to his knees. Nelson stopped the fight as a white towel flew into the ring from Nunn's corner.

 

Dude, it's my opinion. relax

Anyway. logically, if he is more qualified that many who have gotten in, then he should get in.

 

Yes, but in the real world, the HOF is not limiting entrance to true ATG's.

So, why should guys like Curry and Nunn be penalized for not being ATGs, while guys like Gatti, McGuigan and Mancini are not penalized for it.

I don't even think Matthew Saad Muhammad was a true ATG, but he got in very quickly, Some of that had to do with his massively exciting style and large popularity. He was better than Mancini an Gatti and McGuigan though.

 

Obviously, the Hall is not practically working from the "highest" standard.

BTW" Please name some of these mythical guys who have "done more than Nunn" who aren't in.

 

Leonard clearly felt he could beat Tommy after seeing the Barkley and Kinchen fights.

The reports after the Kinchen fight were that Tommy was badly fading.

But, Tommy surprised him and everybody else (except Hearns loyalists) with a great performance in their rematch.

 

I'm a huge Hearns fan but at that time NOBODY was going to beat Nunn and everyone knew it.
He would have thrashed any middleweight during that time period.
He made Tate look like a club fighter.
He crushed Kalambay.
The problem was nobody could hit him when he was on the way up so he altered his style a little to attract more fans.
Mike Tinley was a soild middleweight contender- had a couple of really good wins. When he met Nunn he might have landed 10 punched in 10 rounds.
Same with Watts. Decent boxer but I think he hit Nunn maybe 10 times in 12 rounds.

 

Yes. The sense I get is just that. And, with Hagler signalling he was going to stay retired, Hearns appeared to be a relatively safe, money-making bet.

That he fought so well (and some might call it Hearns' last great performance) still mystifies me. But then I think 'Hearns the Middleweight' will always mystify me...

 

No surprise it is an old story in boxing the economics of fighting Nunn made no sense and....Nunn was too good to fight for lesser money the same thing with McCallum just too good and not enough money to risk it.

The blame for this is part not having the "it" factor and part promoter failure neither guy had a compelling back story to draw interest. As great as their talent Holmes is another who wasn't marketed well given his personality it was no surprise he was sullen
But Hearns people were right the article tried to get public pressure and force a fight....it was a shaming tactic.

 

People tend to forget the word "FAME" when talking about the Hall.

Fame being short for "Famous." If you weren't necessarily among the greatest fighters who ever lived, being among the most "famous" certainly counts as a qualification, too.

McGuigan and Mancini both beat Hall of Famers. McGuigan won the title from Pedroza (a Hall of Famer). Mancini stopped Chacon, another Hall of Famer. If quality of opposition was the only criteria, they may be borderline.

Besides that, McGuigan and Mancini were famous around the globe for very different reasons.

McGuigan unified sports fans in Ireland when his country was in the midst of a civil war between Catholics and Protestants. But the warring sides would have a ceasefire any time McGuigan fought. He brought his country together. That's significant. That doesn't happen every day. McGuigan may not deserve to get in just on his wins, but his importance in his country is unquestioned. And Boxing is a global sport.

Mancini was a huge story in the early 80s. His fight with Arguello was a classic. His winning the title for his father who was the #1 contender before WWII and then lost his shot when the titles were frozen and he was injured in battle. Mancini-Chacon was so anticipated (with Mancini's fame and Chacon coming off two Fights of the Year), that Warren Zevon wrote a song about it. But Mancini was probably most famous for killing Du Koo Kim. Mancini's fight with Kim changed the sport entirely. The WBC subsequently limited title fights from 15 rounds to 12, because most deaths came late in fights when boxers were exhausted, dehydrated and couldn't defend themselves properly. The other orgs followed.

If you kill a guy and it changes the rules of the sport, that's pretty significant.

Nunn and Curry don't have the wins to get in. They didn't have any true rivalries. They didn't accomplish anything of significance outside the ring. They didn't change the sport. They weren't even notable stars in their time.

That's why I said they don't have the wins. They don't have the fame, either.

Hell, McGuigan and Mancini are STILL more famous (decades after retiring) than Nunn and Curry ever were, even when they were champs.

Nunn and Curry were very good boxers and champs for a brief time. They just don't have anything you can point at to put them over the top.

I'm not going to say anything about Gatti. I wouldn't have voted him in. I think that may have had to do with an east coast bias, considering the majority of the boxing writers and national media in the US seem to be on the east coast of the US. He was definitely a compelling character, maybe even more compelling after he died young. But you could make an argument people who were contemporaries of Gatti's, like Vernon Forrest, who also died young under much more heroic circumstances, deserved to get in before Gatti (who either hung himself after beating his wife or was killed because he beat her). Gatti just seems to be a bad pick.

Whatever. I'm all for raising the bar rather than lowering it for guys like Curry and Nunn.

If they get in, then anyone who puts together a decent run and wins a couple belts should get in. Start dusting off spots for Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman if that's the case.

I just don't see the need to do that.

 

Mike Tinley, Kevin "Killer" Watts and Frank Tate weren't exactly Tommy Hearns.

I agree. Nunn was very elusive. And he put together a very nice TWO-year run. Then he got knocked out by Toney, who would become a great fighter, but had only been a pro for a little more than two years. And then Michael Nunn was just another guy.

 

Nunn took out KALAMBAY in a round.
Nunn took out Roldan in 8 rounds and Roldan never was in the fight.
He took out undefeated Frank Tate.
Knocked out Curtis Parks in 2.
Knocked out Kronk prospect Darnell Knox.
Took out British Champion Ashley.
Lost SPLIT decision to Rocky in a fight he won.
Lost split decision to Liles.
Watts,Ramos,Tinley and a host of other contenders he made look like bums.
Won the Super middleweight title.
He was beating the crap out of Toney and the only reason he lost? He got tired.
Also beat Curry and Starling.
I'd say that's a hell of a career.

 

Nunn was slick and he was lighting fast.
And when he had to he could punch.

 

This doesn't make sense

So, if you're popular but have questionable credentials, it's fine that the Hall of FAME lets you in. But, if you're less popular, but have better credentials that said "popular" guys, the Hall "should not lower its bar" to let you in. Even, if it is actually raising its bar vis a vis guys like McGuigan, Mancini and Gatti.

Basically you're saying "Only true ATGs should get in, unless you're a really popular action guy who was good but otherwise wouldn't qualify. You can get it but less popular but higher qualified guys - NO."

LOL.

Unfortunately, you're skewed take is actually what the Hall seems to be doing.

Maybe, you are an actual voter. LOL.

The Hall would be greatly improved if it based admission the quality of the fighter, period.

Many on here have seen how getting in the Hall is becoming more of a popularity contest.

You are obviously not one of those posters.

 

RJJ didn't want him either

 

That's one end of the scale.