Langford Ko's Jeffries In Reno Did It Happen?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 4, 2019.



  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    There were rumours that Langford ko'd Jeffries in a private bout prior to Jeffries challenging Johnson.
    The story goes that Langford ko'd Jeffries in 4 rds at Moana Springs, just over a week before Jeffries fought Johnson.the only witnesses were Joe Woodman,Langford's manager,and Jeffries handlers.
    The fight supposedly took place in a large room cleared of furniture in the hotel Jeffries was staying in. Woodman recounted the story to fighter Jim Barry and trainer Biddy Bishop.Woodman was in Langford's corner,Bob Armstrong,Sam Berger,Jim Corbett,and a close friend of Jeffries ,**** Adams,were attending Jeffries.
    According toWoodman Langford knocked Jeffries down twice in the third rd,Woodman stated,"Jeffries didn't punish Sam very much,the big fellow was slow and couldn't hit very well ."
    The story seems to have been kept under wraps until two and a half years later,when on Jan18th 1913,"The Mirror Of Sporting Life & Boxing World ," ran it with the headline,
    "When Sam Langford Knocked Out Jim Jeffries",by George Almy.
    As far as I am aware none of the men present ,apart from Woodman ever confirmed the story,but equally as far as I know, none of them ever denied it.
    One would have thought Corbett,Berger,or Armstrong, would have refuted it at some point. I believe Jeffries himself never commented on it .
    I post this just for interests sake ,it's a curio that probably has no substance but is somewhat intruiging.imo
     
  2. Fergy

    Fergy Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,491
    2,818
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 8, 2017
    Interesting story McVey. And if it did actually occur ,then may have some bearing in the actual Johnson v Jeffries fight. A shattering of Jeff's confidence so to speak .
    Jeffries would have being destroyed by Jack either way but something like that s not going to do wonders for self belief !
     
  3. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,755
    1,931
    Sportsbook:
    1,420
    Jul 18, 2018
    Wait, if Langford knocked out Jeffries right before the bout with Johnson, then why did the plot for Bob Armstrong to knock out Jeffries need to occur? It would be less shameful to be knocked out by Langford anyways. One of the stories has to be false
     
    Rock0052 likes this.
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    62,639
    3,468
    Sportsbook:
    8
    Sep 15, 2009
    I'd be surprised if this is true, mainly because I've never heard it before.
     
  5. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,513
    534
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 11, 2005
    I wouldn't put much faith in Biddy Bishop's stories.
     
    Rock0052 likes this.
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Active Member Full Member

    605
    492
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 15, 2018
    I’m not sure how handlers handled their fighters back then but I’d think w Jeffries having a mega fight approaching shortly that they’d protect him a little. Then again I really have no clue about pre 1930s boxing other then what I’ve read on this forum
     
  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    59,597
    5,265
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 15, 2006
    I suspect that it didn't happen, because Jeffries handlers were not looking for sparring partners who would test him too much.

    I don't think they would have put him in with Langford, and if they did they would have told Langford to take it easy.

    Having said that, we cannot dismiss the idea completely.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Jeffries mental state not sleeping the night before,being gripped by tension as the fight started[Joe Choynski believed he suffered nervous breakdown],is attributed by some to this event.
     
    richdanahuff likes this.
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Possibly not ,but its an interesting piece imo.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    The question may be which one?
     
  11. Hookandjab

    Hookandjab Active Member Full Member

    1,495
    354
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 19, 2014
    This just doesn’t make sense. About one week before the fight of his life, Jeffries fought Langford? I doubt it.
     
    Rock0052, timmers612 and KasimirKid like this.
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    The story actually originated from Boxer Jim Barry and he related it to Bishop.I'm disputing nothing of what you have said,neither am I vouching for the veracity of the story . I'm just a fan, not a historian I just posted it as a point of interest.
    I do find it strange that as far as I can ascertain none of the principals ever denied the story.
     
  13. The Senator

    The Senator Member Full Member

    274
    269
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 10, 2017
    .The Langford-Jeffries KO isn't impossible, but it takes a lot more to believe it. Interesting idea, though, and a truly terrible bit of judgement from the Jeffries camp if it did happen.
     
  14. Fergy

    Fergy Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,491
    2,818
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 8, 2017
    Interesting info. You can imagehis state of mind ,being out so Long and meeting Johnson ,with that hanging over you. Not a good frame of mind
     
    mcvey likes this.
  15. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,556
    1,567
    Sportsbook:
    306
    Oct 4, 2016
    Well, if it did happen it would be about right. Jefferies was a shell of his old self against Jack.
    This reminds me of that story in a newspaper at the time that Dempsey ko'ed a 42 year old Jack Johnson, I think it was in 7 rounds
     
  16. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,101
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 5, 2011
    "why did the plot for Bob Armstrong to knock out Jeffries need to occur?"

    Could you elaborate on what you know about Armstrong KO'ing Jeff?

    Eddie Muller of the San Francisco Examiner wrote at the time of Jeff's death that Jeff had a practice "fight" with Armstrong at a secret site up in the mountains and got knocked out. Muller claimed to have seen a photo of Jeff on the canvas with the surprised Armstrong standing over him. He claimed Tex Rickard purchased the photo & his silence from the photographer in order to protect the gate of the Johnson-Jeffries fight.

    I would be interested in any more detail about Armstrong and Jeffries.

    I have heard or read nothing about Langford KO'ing Jeff and the fact that he was a challenger to Johnson creates a reason to claim "beating" Jeff in a sparring match as a way of building up a Langford shot at Johnson. The Armstrong story hasn't got that motive.
     
  17. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

    5,113
    626
    Sportsbook:
    552
    Nov 7, 2011
    Anyone who has read the book care to comment or add the review of Unbeaten ?
     
    SuzieQ1949 likes this.
  18. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,861
    169
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 25, 2005
    Then there was the report in a Canadian paper of Dempsey ko'ing Johnson in a private bout around '20. A writer some years before Jack's passing who had read the antiquated piece and asked Jack of it said Dempsey asked him not to publish the piece until after his death and didn't confirm or deny it.
     
    Reinhardt likes this.
  19. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    47,024
    3,740
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 29, 2007
    And no, Langford did not KO Jeffries in Reno. Sam's manager Joe Woodman would have made press headlines if that happened, saying my guy had him out in 3, Johnson took 15, so Johnson vs Langford must happen next.

    Looking back, Jeffries was was was washed up. Gun Boat Smith, or Luther McCarty were the best white hopes. Johnson fought neither.
     
  20. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Was Was Was?Johnson offered to fight McCarty in Canada.He offered to fight Smith anywhere for $30,000 .

    Who wanted to promote either fight?
     
  21. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    47,024
    3,740
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 29, 2007

    Back by whom? And what type of purses was McCarty making in those days? Just because Johnson says so cannot be taken seriously.

    Johnson never came close to getting Gun Boat Smith into the ring after their 1909 encounter when GB TKO'd Johnson in their 4 round ex match.

    Johnson vs McCarty would have been interesting. I get the feeling the young McCarty was coming into his own and would have beaten Johnson as soon as 1912.
     
  22. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Johnson doesn't say so, Adam Pollack does and he has a copy of the telegram Johnson sent to Burns suggesting the match ,along with Burns reply dismissing the idea.

    On18th of Dec 1911 Jeff Clark beat McCarty by dec, flooring him in the 3rd yet going into 1912 McCarty is beating Johnson? lol Yeah sure!
    Ten days later [28th]McCarty lost a dec to Harry Wuest 12-3-3! What win going into the New year suggests that McCarty belonged in the ring with Johnson in1912?
    The feeling was at the time that Smith wasn't anxious to fight Johnson,certainly being knocked down by a 20years old 170lbs Carpentier doesn't suggest he would do much with Jack.
    Do I really have to keep pointing out that a boxer cannot be tko'd in a spar? You've repeated this so many times I'm sure you believe it, but literally nobody else does.Continually repeating it just makes you look stupid.Smith had a purple patch of about a year,most thought Willard beat him, come to that most thought Willard beat McCarty.
    A fat ,overweight Langford lost a dec to Smith and took him out quick in the rematch Smith was basicallyfinished at class level after that
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  23. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    47,024
    3,740
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 29, 2007
    Back by whom? And what type of purses was McCarty making in those days? Just because Johnson says so cannot be taken seriously.

    Johnson never came close to getting Gun Boat Smith into the ring after their 1909 encounter when GB TKO'd Johnson in their 4 round ex match.

    Johnson vs McCarty would have been interesting. I get the feeling the young McCarty was coming into his own and would have beaten Johnson as soon as 1912.


    Oh, I see a telegram was sent. That's hardly a legitimate finically backed event. It was a suggestion and boxing is full of 1,000's of them that never happen. Let's stop spinning things, shall we?

    McCarthy was only 21, I think when he died and improving. Give him 1-2 more years, and he's far better than the likes of Flynn and Moran, and possibly / probably had more upside than Willard was a boxer. Willard beat McCarty? How old was McCarty when this happened? Jess Willard was 30, Luther McCarty just 20 and had one years experience as a professional. Need I say more? Box Rec has it as a draw.

    Smith said, " And he never forgot it " , referring to the punch that TKO'd Johnson in the 1909 ex match when Smith was a novice. He improved a bit and just was not in Johnson's plans. You can ignore what happened, to me it shows how easily Smith could knock a prime Johnson silly.
     
  24. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    84,645
    9,484
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    You said McCarty would have beaten Johnson in 1912 which is a nonsense as I proved by the people that were beating him in December 1911!Ringside reports which I posted on the other McCarty thread named Willard as the winner!Willard had the same amount of experience as regards time but only 12 fights to McCarty's 15! So that's shot you up the ass!
    You seriously think being knocked down in a sparring match means you can knock a champion out?
    Does this also apply to Toxie Hall dropping Marciano and the sparring being called off?
    Travis Walker and Raphael Butler dropping Vitali klitschko?
    Greg Page dropping Mike Tyson?
    Should they have gotten title shots on the back of those knockdowns too?lol
    You're an idiot ,and an absurdly biased one!
     

Share This Page