Langford on facing Jeannette n Johnson

"I still stand by a KO victory for Langford. But win, lose or draw Johnson is in for a fight. And a nasty one at that."

You might be right Surf, after all Johnson himself told the Austalian promoter, Hugh McIntosh, that he had no desire to fight Sam and that he (Langford) had a chance to win against anybody.

 

Of course it should be noted that he would also be up against one of the greatest defences of all time.

Johnson went 20rds or more 9 times and 15 rds when he was 48, he had no problems keeping out of trouble in extended fights.
From 1907 till 1914,[ Langford's prime years,] Joe Jeannette went the distance with Langford in all of their 8 fights the distances varied from , 10,12,15 and 20 rds.

Others who managed to go the route during this period include Colin Bell 15rds,Jim Barry,6,10rds x5 , Sam McVey20rds x4, Battling Jim Johnson went 10rds x2, Fireman Jim Flynn went 10rds, even Young Peter Jackson went 20rds with Sam,and Sandy Ferguson went 12rds.
If these, whose defence was nothing like as good as Johnson's could manage it , why shouldnt Johnson?

 

Good points McVey. Also, you can't escape the fact that Johnson had height, reach, weight, superior defense, and overall boxing skill superior to anyone Langford fought who went the distance with him.

As for Johnson saying Langford had a chance against anyone, 1. that shows that Johnson is intelligent and recognizes that Langford was a very good fighter, and 2. Johnson knows how to negotiate with a promoter - ie. hey, if you want me to fight this very good fighter who has a chance against anyone, you had better pay me a hefty guarantee. However, I don't think the fight will generate enough tickets sales for you to pay me the big price I'd want to fight such a dangerous guy, especially since the majority of paying customers are white, and whites want to see a white man try to recover the crown for the white race, and aren't much interested in seeing a black man take the crown from a black man. Hence, I'm not fighting this guy just for a percentage.

 

Johnson also KO'd Flynn. After Johnson easily handled Kaufman, promoters did not want a Johnson-Barry fight, thinking it would be a total mismatch. Regardless, no one ever said Johnson was a KO artist like Langford. But we all know that in boxing the better puncher doesn't necessarily beat the defensive specialist. See Ali and Mayweather. But get your point that Langford was a live enough fighter that he deserved a chance.

 

My point is Langford was not "devastating" all those he faced.
Jim Barry went the distance with Langford 7 times out of their 12 meetings during this period and 4 of them were 10 rounders , one was 20rds, enough time to lower the boom if Sam was able imo, especially as Barry was a 7-1-0 novice when he first met the 60 fight Langford.

Jeannette went the distance 8 times with Langford during this time so he too was hardly "devastated".

Johnson was not unhittable, but for 15 years no one knocked him out,and ,for 10 years no one beat him.

While no one disputes Langford had massive power, he did not devastate all his opponents and had some close calls against rather unskilled individuals.Iron Hague made him turn a cartwheel in the ring with one swing for example.
Barry floored him,Porky Flynn had him down twice.

Kid Cotton, a Johnson sparring partner dropped him.

You excuse Langford not getting the ko in some fights , saying he may have had the cuffs on.
I have no doubt Langford carried some fighters, to what extent we will never know.

I have also no doubt that Jack Johnson allowed several fighters to stay the limit with him including Tony Ross, Al Kaufman,Jack Munroe and Sandy Ferguson multiple times .

Ferguson held Langford to a 12rds draw in1909.

Do you not think Johnson could have ended matters earlier in his two fights with Flynn, had he chosen to do so?

How many rounds in total did Flynn win in their two fights?

Is it heresy to suggest that JOHNSON might have stopped Jeannette had he put himself out to do so in some of their fights?

Papers report he had him on the verge of a ko in one of their 6 rounders but ran out of time.

Langford did stop Jeannette ,Mcvey and Wills , but they also beat him, two of them by stoppages.
McVey seems to have pretty much held his own with Langford,an admittedly younger McVey was never in it in his three fights with Johnson.

Wills came along when Johnson's star had faded,an early sparring partner for Johnson he was " let go ",being in Johnson's words "unable to handle the work".

To summarise.
As all those I have mentioned went the route with Langford many times during those years ,[and I think it is a given that Johnson was defensively better than any of them,]I think it is unlikely that Langford would manage to get over his equalizer for a ko.

This leaves him with the the option of outpointing Johnson,again I think this is improbable.
Therefore I have to conclude that Johnson would win ,and by decision.

 

A link which gives a summary of Langford's chances against Johnson .


http://www.fultonhistory.com/fulton.html type in Sam langford and scroll down on left.
Ogdenburg NY News 0079 is the one.

 

>>He fouled him for sure. News papers say doctor’s confirmed it. The Boston Globe said Johnson fired multiple low blows.

>>This was from the book on Tommy Burns, which I showed you. How in the world is forwarding a report a lie? Only in your small mind!

>>Again, the Burns book said those in the front row said Burns looked ill, and at a low weight of 168 pounds, something was up. If you dismiss a book, how about the opinion of the primer historian on early black prize fighters? Kevin Smith said there is evidence Burns had something of a jaundice. So he agrees with the author of the Burns Book.

>>I am quoting Johnson himself as he told this to the French press. Take your pick, Johnson is 1 ) lying, or 2 ) is telling the truth that Langford did floor him. So which is it in your book? Not all fight reports record knockdowns. If you read enough of them, you will see they can miss knockdowns.

>>Again, I am quoting your boy Jack Johnson himself! Did he lie again here??? By the way I'm sure you read Johnson's comment on Langford. He called him a little smoke, which I believe was a degratory term for a black person back then. This should surprise no one, as Johnson also called women of color two timing you know what's, and stated selfishly that he wanted to be the only black heavyweight champion.

>> So says the Cyber Boxing Zone and Unforgivable Blackness. These are both fine sources. If the match was only 10 rounds, Battling Jim was the better based on the NY Time write up I posted here!

>>Yes, the French tried to strip Johnson. We have been over this before. It’s not my fault your memory is as defective as your character. Ask the more knowledgeable members of the board! They will tell you it happened! No worries, you'll forget all of the above in a few months.

NEXT!