Langford v Wlad?

This is likely true, and most certainly a more reasonable claim.

This didn't really work out

Yeah, but as you've already said that Valuev was a relevant heavyweight, which was my original point. We agree that Wlad did not fight "every relevant heavweight of his era", which is all I was after.

As long as you're no longer literally dismissing these fighters as irrelevancies, I can live with any arrangement of "reasons" for these fights not coming of, same as with any other HW - I even view the
Dempsey-Wills debacle in this light.

However you prefer to say it, you probably know deep down that Wlad hasn't met every single relevant HW there is (Aside from the most most relevant!). This would be an almost unique achievement, and even the briefest of relationships with boxing should be enough to tell a person that a #1 and a #2 sharing an era without fighting one another are going to suck some of the oxygen out of the room vis-a-vis the other one. It's obvious.

 

Wrong.

Wrong.

Yes he is. Sorry. He is. They may not WANT to fight each other, and we might agree that that is reasonable - but they are in the same era and they are potential opponents for one another. The fight might even happen yet, nothing is impossible

No, that's not true. If you have a #2 and a #3 contender that you never fight and you do 26 title defences in a row, you haven't cleaned out the division - inarguable, incontrovertible fact.

No i'm not. In discussion with Mongoose, I needed him to admit that Wlad has missed out on relevant contenders in his division, and he did. Now, to somebody with your pea-brain, that probably means that I "won" - but I certainly don't see it that way, though we were definitely in a tussle. You, on the other hand, are so incredibly stupid that we cannot even be said to be having a discussion. It's just you writing things that are incorrect, and me telling you that you are wrong, you ******ed, racist, lying, coward.

 

Well, I think most fans would know what is meant by it when confronted by it, especially on a board like this. A lot of the guys I've listed were abuzz on the boards about fights with either Klitschko (Remember it took time for Wlad to prove himself the best of the two, another underlining of the difficulties in a twin-headed champion - one that is fully detailed in the Klitschko Movie).

I don't accept that it is a "buzzword" at all. It's just a word you used to describe certain fighters, and that attach it to SQ as an opinion he held. It's not a word I hear a lot.

What I take it to mean is any fighter ranked or armed with a bauble, or with some other reasonable reason (beating Wlad, for example) to be connected firmly with a title shot by fans.

You won't, despite Unf's joke, see fans demanding title shots for Audley in any numbers.

Wlad has fought a lot of really good fighters, and hasn't missed many out. However, he didn't dominate or clean out his era, he shared it with the other extrardinary fighter of his era, and he didn't meet every relevant HW.

TOGETHER, these facts mean something, unfortunately. If you beat up all your top contenders, but one or two relevant guys slip through the net, **** happens. If you NEVER take on a #1 contender and you let a few other guys slip through, this is relevant.

I don't think it's disastrous for legacy due to longevity and skillset, and can still see him as a top 10 ATG now.

But I object to the utilisation of certain, erm, "buzzwords" to describe these achievements. Because these buzzwords mean something. Especially in relation to the fighter who actually achieved such things.

 

I don't think most have made that distinction, but I think you're probably along the right lines with that - though I would have to say that there isn't a reign, getting technical about it - I only put so much stock in that though, as I don't think there is much doubt, retrospectively, as to his supposed superiority. I want to stress that without beating Vitali, there will always (rightly) be speculation. Maybe Vitali was better, and up until 08/09, and even after for a hardcore, there is speculation as to exactly that.

It depends upon wha tyou mean by "claim" - in the course of working for the TBRB, I've run into a fair amount of resistance as regards a Vitali claim in the light of Vitali-Sanders. In the strictest of terms, I would have to disagree with you that "Vitali never had a claim."

There's one, his defeat, on behalf of his brother of Sanders is surely another significant matter as regards removal of oxygen (an avenged defeat is meaningful, as you will know), I've already made a reasonable case for Solis whether you like it or not, and Arreola and Gomez could have represented reasonable challenges, or more importantly would have been able to mature, possibly, into genuine tests.

This is what people mean when they talk about a two-tier champion. Even Stewards talked about it.

But that is quite some caveat.

 

Speculation is the lifeblood of a forum like this. If you think you can stem it with a thousand off-hand remarks like this one, you are mistaken.

I accept the brothers have been off limits to each other. What you have to accept is that from a sporting point of view, this has consequences for Wladimir. This is because he hasn't been tested by the best of his generation. The idea that Vitali isn't Wlad's best possible challenger in the course of his career is an almost unique one, and not one I take that seriously. Wlad is no more "excused" in a real sporting sense for not fighting his brother than Dempsey is for not fighting Wills because he was black, though that was seen as acceptable by many in his time.

Of course they would.

He is my #1. You are confusing me personally with the TBRB (happens a lot).

If you mean "there are stupid people on this forum", you are right. If you mean "there are stupid people on this forum so my claim that Vitali "never had a claim" is now true", you are wrong.

Arguable, of course. I tend to agree though. Regardless, Vitali has a claim according to some.

And that in no way counters my claim that Vitali has sucked the oxygen out of the division, and that it is entirely obvious why. I've outlined the reasons, but they shouldn't really need outlining.

Why on earth not?