Of course you do. It allows you to stress that Wlad and Vitali can't fight (Which isn't true btw) whilst ignoring that Wlad can't dominate his division (which is the same thing. If a major fighter of any description can lay claim to an unanswered challenge, it is a major black eye to claims that he cleaned out his division.
-Can't or won't, doesn't matter, they simply aren't fighting. -You can't define Wlad's dominance by a fantasy fight that we all know fully well won't happen. Vitali does not exist to him. Chageav, Povetkin, Chambers, and Haye are his real top challengers. -Exactly, Wlad understands the importance of this and has done a good job of chasing Haye and Povetkin and getting these fights finally done.
We are now literally going around in circles, but the fact that they can't or won't means that Wlad hasn't cleared out his division. Unfortunately, a clear #2 going unmatched makes for a two-headed era by default even if we agree one is better than the other.
Nor can you say Wlad has not domianted...when its obvious he's collected or is collecting the best scalps this era has to offer save his only brother's. If Wlad not fighting Vitali is just a hang up you can't get around, that's fine. As long as there is no pretense they are a joint reign dominating or cleaning up this era together. It's obvious baby brother is cleaning the house and I will add doing the yardwork while the big brother is just making making his own bed and laying in it.
Suzie you're a good poster but you are wrong on this one.Wlad is head and shoulders above his challengers, but he has not cleaned out his division.
McGrain and I are certainly not fans of each other but on this occasion he is right and you are wrong ,[no change there then]. For you of all people to accuse someone of bigotry is as big a joke as you are yourself. BTW .He is Scottish.
No, I've listed all the fighters who were ranked directly below Vitali in the last 5-6 years at the #2 or #3 spot. Povetkin is the only exception and that fight is happening.
But its not much of a criticism if nobody cleaned out their division or can agree on a definition. Everytime on this forum I see someone make the claim, everytime someone will go to the RING listings and pick out names without regard or context. Its pointless.
But i've already offered an alternative to this, and you completely ignored this!? Oh well...I guess my final words would be, you can't clear out your division without clearing out your division, and Wlad did not do so. But this is nothing get excited or fall into denial about. Wlad is an extremely good fighter, a great one, and he has beaten some excellent fighters.
That's the "relevance discussion." I was talking about the guys who would have been ranked #1 or #2 had Vitali not been sitting on the #1 spot.
Your alternative doesn't even add up because Louis missed #2-#3 guys like Franklin, Bivins, Charles, Shepard, Rey, and Savold during his reign in the 40s. And questions were asked about these guys. This is not my personal opinion, just an application of your alternative. And were back to Ali during his second reign as maybe the only Heavyweight who qualifies. Though he missed Holmes in 77. Now I know why that fight didn't happen, I'm just applying this alternative.
I wasn't criticising him, I was merely disgreeing with the assertion that he cleaned out his division
