Langford vs. Charles at 175

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Aug 22, 2009.


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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I have to conceed that Sam Langford did not fight a light heavyweight as good as Archie Moore or Harold Johnson.

    On the heavyweight front I think there is a strong case for saying that Harry Wills was as good as Jersey Joe Walcott though it is hard to compare them.
     
    janitor, Aug 23, 2009
    janitor, Aug 23, 2009
    #46
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What an avatar you have.
     
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    #47
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Good posts back and forth between Mendoza and Manassa, fair play good read.

    I'm satisfied that Langford faced greater challenges than Charles.
     
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    #48
  4. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    You think? Normally I'd commend a good challenge but Dr Z is, and has always been, ****.

    (No offence to the man with the imaginary PhD).
     
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    #49
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, I liked reading it. I'm not very interested in who's challenging who or winning, I just liked reading it.
     
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    #50
  6. Raging B(_)LL

    Raging B(_)LL KAPOW!!! Full Member

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    Thanks, I quite like it myself actually, this thread was a good read as well.
     
    Raging B(_)LL, Aug 23, 2009
    Raging B(_)LL, Aug 23, 2009
    #51
  7. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    On the heavyweight front, Langford also fought Jack Johnson!
     
    djanders, Aug 23, 2009
    djanders, Aug 23, 2009
    #52
  8. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    And Johnson beat him. Would Langford have ever beaten Johnson? Maybe, about once in a series of five fights I should imagine.
     
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    #53
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'd pick Langford over Johnson any time after the Jeffries fight.
     
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    McGrain, Aug 23, 2009
    #54
  10. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Actually yeah I'd pick him as Johnson got more and more complacent. But then Walcott was still great when Charles beat him both times.
     
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    #55
  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    A few selective points regarding Langford: Charles' chin was tested and proved dentable while still a prime man. His chin was his chin. It was pretty good but not great, period. Langford took a much better punch.

    You (mis)quote Langford losses over the length of his career when we all know he was fighting half blind from 1917 on when he was already in his mid 30's ...

    As I wrote earlier, these are two of the all time greatest pound for pound fighters .. over ten Charles may win a decision but over 15 or twenty Langford proves too much ...
     
    he grant, Aug 23, 2009
    he grant, Aug 23, 2009
    #56
  12. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Okay, and a point of mine; never said Charles had a robust jaw, or that he would knock out Langford or anything like that, just that his chin was adequate at the very least, and his punches were hard and sharp enough.

    But I'd like you to expand on my misquotings.
     
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    Manassa, Aug 23, 2009
    #57
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Langford was famous for spoiling game plans. Sam used to say, " whatever the other guy wants to do, I don't let him "
     
    Mendoza, Aug 24, 2009
    Mendoza, Aug 24, 2009
    #58
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You are implying that. I am saying styles make fights, and Langford is more dynamic with his feet, has faster hands, better range, and better combinations in comparison to Marciano. If your main point is Charles is a slick boxer, then Langford is certainly well equipped to get to him.

    Johnson tried in some of these matches. See the O'Brein, Moran, and Willard fights. Yes--Johnson wishes he Ko'd these guys within five as he was in danger of losing the first two, and did lost the third. Off tangent point. Back to Charles vs. Langford.


    Were you not telling us how smart Charles was? Yes--Charles was badly buzzed with his legs doing funny things in round one. Charles superior skills got to Satterfield in round two, but the point here is two fold:

    1 ) Charles did not fight smart. In fact he put himself at risk

    2 ) Charles could not keep Satterfield off of him, and did not show much defense.

    We have 15 rounds vs Langford

    Langford was aggressive. He could fight hard for 15+ rounds.

    Hold on. Don't assume what I have seen. I did see Charles vs Walcott 1. It was boring. Walcott was too passive / did not risk much. Didn't Charles also lose a decision to Bivins? Some of the Moore fights were very close. Moore had a dentable chin. Langford did not. Also, Charles had his hands full vs journeyman Valentino in the 40's. Its on film.

    Are you ever gong to show me examples of where Charles used strategy or defense to win? I have asked for this twice. Since you have seen what I have, I'm thinking I am correct here.

    Charles was a fine amateur. Something like 46-1. Don't try to excuse his early KO loss to a middleweight Marshall. Since there is no film on Ray, and he failed to KO all but one older contender, is he really a big puncher? Also, Ray won a decision from Charles. Disputed or not, it happened.

    Yes we are. Your prime for Charles is rather short. Langford's prime from 1907-1914 is nearly twice as long.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 24, 2009
    Mendoza, Aug 24, 2009
    #59
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Manassa: Nothing else really stands out to me, just opinions. Mine is that I'd say Langford beats Marciano. No question in my book. Terrible match up for Rocky. You obviously disagree but I am far from alone on this selection. Langford excelled against men coming to him. I'd say he crushes Dempsey as well. I'm not saying he dominates all time at heavyweight but against cruisers who come to him it's ulgy. Dempsey agreed.
     
    he grant, Aug 24, 2009
    he grant, Aug 24, 2009
    #60
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