Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis

Yeah that's exactly what i meant whilst Lewis did improve technically under Steward he was still in his physical prime when he lost to McCall.

And this maybe a hot take but i truly believe a younger Lewis would've stopped the version of Holyfield that Lewis fought in their 1st fight. Lewis had Holyfield ready to go numerous times who looked lackluster and disheartened, if Lewis would've just upped the aggression slightly i truly believe he could've got Holyfield out of there.

So whilst Lewis in the late 90s was better technically than the early 90s Lewis, the early 90s Lewis did have more aggression and was slightly faster overall IMO.

 

We could go round in circles with this, but the bottom line is this: Lewis was not in his prime for the first McCall fight. He was not performing at the best point in his career then.

That’s what a fighter’s prime is—the period in a fighter’s career when he’s performing at his absolute best.

And Lewis’ not stopping Holyfield in the 1st fight was down to mentality. But he had that same problem in 1993/94 when he was inconsistent and up and down, with his 12-round decision against Tucker a prime example. If you’re on about the younger Lewis having more aggression to stop Holyfield, he never had it against Tucker.

 

As I said yes he improved technically under Steward but he was still in his physical prime when he got stopped by McCall. It's not like Lewis was some green inexperienced fighter he had a substantial Amateur career and was a world champion when McCall KO'ed him.

We also have to remember Steward was in McCall's corner and he came up with a good gameplan to beat Lewis, I think a Steward trained McCall could always be a bit of a danger to Lewis. McCall had the chin to withstand Lewis's punches and obviously showed he could seriously compromise Lewis with one punch. I don't really count their rematch as obviously McCall wasn't mentally fit to fight.

A Steward trained Lewis barely scrapped by Mercer, was all over the place vs Briggs in the early portion of their fight, not to mention getting splattered by Rahman with one punch.

I think it's a bit of a myth that Lewis suddenly become this near unbeatable fighter under Steward, don't get me wrong Lewis did improve under Steward and rates highly H2H but he still did show vulnerabilities under Steward.

 

Lewis' biggest vulnerability was his tendency to be complacent.

A peak Lewis that had his mind on the job was nigh-on unbeatable.

 

Mate, he was just a better and vastly improved fighter under Steward, period. Miles better then he was pre-Steward.

Lewis maybe wasn’t inexperienced and green around 1993/94 but he had more holes in his game. He wasn’t as polished or as effective. If you think otherwise, I question your boxing acumen.

Who said he was unbeatable under Steward? Not me anyway.

He was lighter and more athletic pre-Steward but wasn’t anywhere near his best then. He kept everything long, looped his punches, loaded up with the right and needed to get set again after throwing due to poor balance.

He showed vulnerability under Steward. True. But he was far more vulnerable pre-Steward.

So you’re saying physical prime. Fair enough. But a fighter’s prime is a period in their career when they’re performing at their best. That wasn’t when he fought McCall.

 

Norton was 35, Holyfield was 37. Holyfield looked worse with Vaughn Bean than Norton looked with Jimmy Young. Norton was difficult style for Holmes, Holyfield was easy style for Lewis. The Norton vs. Holmes fight is a great fight, the Lewis - Holy fight is a great disappointment. At what point do you think Whiterarspoon or Smith would be better than Larry Holmes?

 

I think that Lewis losing to McCall while young has been somewhat blown out of proportion, as much as it may have been his "physical prime", the only thing that he really lost when working under Stewart was his speed, and just about everything else improved (Though his defense still had big holes from time to time, see the Rahman fight).
Lewis went from being rated under Bonecrusher Smith punch wise by Razor Ruddock to being rated over Vitali and Foreman by Shannon Briggs. Emanuel Steward has a proven past of bringing out guys' knockout power, he turned Hearns into THE HITMAN for god's sake...
He improved tenfold under Steward and his time pre Kronk should simply be considered a green version of Lewis.

 

The thing about Lewis pre Steward was that he was so good already that people kinda refuse to call him green.

 

Lewis got a gift against Mercer

 

I think that Lewis won against Mercer, and that the best you can award Ray with was a draw, but I'll go back and score the fight and see what happens.

 

But you just said Lewis won against Mercer.

So why feel the need to score it again? If you score it again and you have Mercer edging it or a draw, are you going to change your mind? What score are you going to go with?

No use scoring it again, you scored it for Lewis.

 

It's really just to double check. I watched it first time a couple months ago and scored it for Lewis, and so far, I've got the same exact score.

 

Except Holyfield is a much better fighter then Norton and Lewis completely shut him down while Holmes struggled and had a close fight with a past his best Norton.

 

You mention that Norton was past his best, but Holyfield was in horrible shape compared to Norton. Holmes had a close fight because he had actual competition, whereas Lewis simply beat out a far faded version of the Real Deal.
The fact that Holyfield was a far better fighter than Norton IN HIS PRIME has no bearing on what we're talking about here, because that wasn't the version of Evander that he beat.