Larry Holmes...did he miss out on Greg Page and Pinklon Thomas?

I'm a firm believer that most of Greg Page's surviving family takes over this board when his name is mentioned.

The Page "love" on this board is insane.

 

A lunatic comment by the biggest lunatic on here.

 

The santioning bodies were all controlled by King at that point and that is why they used sanctioning bodies outside the USA, King & Holmes navagated around the tough challengers. In fact Snipes got dropped 2x by Coetzee but King made sure the Judges gave the nod to the 22 fight Snipes. Also 10 fight guys like Marvis, 10-2-2 fight guys like Leon Spinks (who was Ko'd by Coetzee in 1rd, 2 years earlier) 14 fight guys like Bey (who lost like 14 of his next 18 fights) Ocasio 13 fights, Bonecrusher was 14-1 etc. Holmes avoided the better guys.

Remember King got caught paying off John Ort of Ring magazine to fix the ratings & make for one Tom Prater a higher rating. Pinklon Thomas, Page, Dokes, improved Weaver, Coetzee,Tate were all the better guys when Holmes could have fought them but they were all killing each other off while Holmes fought the Zannons,Evangelista's & the under 15 fight crew

Holmes fought weak, but Tyson set the bar again when he destroyed all of them

 

Again.

Is it possible that there were other factors at play? RE my previous post. What year did Holmes rep the IBF? We're Page and Thomas Carl King fighters AKA Don King? Those guys were good fighters but I doubt it was their boxing prowess that scared Holmes away.

 

Interesting question.

So If Larry just turned yellow at some point why did he fight the feared Mike Tyson at an even older age? That doesn't sound like and easy fight. He had enough drive to fight undefeated Ray Mercer at 41 years old. Evander Holyfield that same year.

When you go to work I hope nobody is stealing 50% of your earnings. If they are call Larry Holmes. He'll tell you to get away from them.

 

Too be fair there was an interest of Coetzee- Holmes bout taking place but it fell through (purse issues then injuries). Coetzee was a Don King fighter.

Coetzee would return to lose to Page.

Holmes did legitimise that 3rd Trinket though, the iBF.

 

A few points:

1). Leon was shown to be the non player that he was when Ali just about shut him out to win their rematch. His stock went WAYYYY down post this fight. He was looked upon as how he WAS looked upon pre his first bout with Ali. Thus Coetzee win over Leon was no huge deal. Understand Spinks was a 7-1-1 pro at the time and was looked at as a 7-1-1 pro.

2). Holmes was first shown to a nationwide audience on live tv in 1977 vs Ibar Arrington. From that point on Holmes was a headliner with his bouts with Shavers (1) and Norton again broadcast on nation wide network TV. It was HOLMES not Tate, Weaver, Dokes, Coetzee, Page etc that had the public’s attention. Why? Holmes beat the two major hwt stars leading into that time...Norton and Shavers. He established himself in the minds of the boxing public via these wins. The paper championship starting with Tate was seen as an anomaly, second rate “title”.

3). The splintering if the “titles” was very distinct during this time. It was as if the WBA wanted it this way. There was no time during this period that one felt any of the WBA champions could hold a candle to Holmes. Let’s all be perfectly honest HOLMES was the champion and was CONSIDERED the champion by the lay and boxing public during this time.

 

Trevor Berbick vs. Pinklon Thomas was a dogfight. Love that classic. I could imagine Larry Holmes vs. Pinklon Thomas would’ve been a lot of fun as well

 

Half those guys who wound up alternative champions to Larry (if they hadn’t already failed challenging him) had but one good win going for them.

Tubbs, Dokes, Tate, Thomas

Coetzee just kept getting chances until he could beat one bad enough to lose to him.
Page too.

Take the belt away and they were fighting for the #1 contender spot. Number one contenders frequently lose fights before challenging a champion or at least had to beat contenders in eliminations. So that’s all those guys were doing.

Instead of being alternative champions these belt holders should only be regarded as contenders who eliminated themselves.

A lot of top contenders are only good enough to become #contender. They cannot defend that position more than once. And so it turned out with most of those guys when they got a belt for that position.

Ultimately, look at the chain of WBA champions. At its root it began with a bogus pairing for a vacant title fight between Coetzee and Tate. That fight did not decide who the best two heavyweights in the world were when Larry was beating Norton and Shavers. Weaver beating their winner proves this. He was knocked out by Larry as well.

 

Very true.

 

Lol. You need to brush up on your research,Perry. Holmes may well have been the best heavyweight on the planet but his WBC title was considered the paper title when he won it against Norton who was awarded the title by the WBC when they withdrew recognition from undisputed champ Neon Leon for pursuing a rematch with Ali instead of defending it against Norton. When Ali won back the title, people tend to forget that officially it wa only for the WBA title though everyone apart from the WBC ... and you Perry,recognised it as for the real legitimate title. Holmes WBC was seen as the bogus title and in many peoples eyes,Holmes didn’t achieve legitimacy as a champion until he beat Ali in 1980. From then on the WBC with Holmes as their champion was considered the lineal title and though both organisations should be blame for not making the efforts to unify the title again, you shouldn’t forget it was the WBC that initiated the split in the first place by stripping their recognition as champion from legitimate undisputed and undefeated heavyweight champion, Neon Leon Spinks, the conqueror of Muhammad Ali.

 

Yes and No.

Stripping a title means nothing to those who follow boxing. You can’t strip the worlds hwt championship.

Norton was never worlds hwt champion. Period. Holmes by beating Norton showed himself as the best hwt on the planet. This plus eliminating Shavers and beating the unretired Ali gave him the true, and in reality only, worlds hwt champion title. No one else had his credentials. No one, except the losers, followed the Tate, Weaver, Dokes etc WBA title as it had no merit since it’s very beginning. Holmes had already proven his superiority by beating the leading contenders Norton and Shavers and then Ali.

Some conveniently begin Holmes reign by his beating Norton. However that cannot be historically as Ali was champion until losing to Spinks and Spinks was champion until he lost to Ali. Ali was champion until he retired.

 

I remember Holmes saying he was tired of fighting the young guys, meaning Pink Thomas. Now that doesn't mean he couldn't beat Thomas at that stage but I do feel Thomas might be the only guy besides Spinks that would've taken the title from Holmes in 1985.

Rematches with Spoon and Truth would've been difficult as well. Maybe even Frank Bruno and Dokes could've been a sight to see.

 

Well it doesn't. James Toney lost to Tiberi, doesn't mean he's an easy night for Bernard Hopkins

 

I think Page would have been tougher for Larry, but I see him winning a close decision. Pinklon? A jabbing contest, but Larry would win close. They would have been good fights.