Larry Holmes: Have him in your top ten or even top five all time?

He did lose...and it doesn't matter, it should not have been close.

 

You can call me a hater. I hate watching Holmes fights for the most part.

I just never thought he was terribly special. Fantastic jab and ok Right hand, but not much else...

 

yes on paper he lost but on paper it also says james toney beat dave tiberi but any knowledgable fan will tell you both decisions were terrible ones...robberies shouldnt be held against fighters

 

Once again, a supposed Top 5 ATG would never have made it close on the rematch. Ali, Foreman, Lennox, and a few others would have destroyed Spinks the second time. Period.

 

id have him around 8 or 9

 

This is how it would break down for me.
Ali
Louis
Marciano
Tyson
Tunney
Lewis
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Dempsey

 

:huh

 

Holmes was pretty clearly past it and deserved the decision. It wasn't even really debatable like the Witherspoon fight. Spinks was arguably the greatest Lightheavyweight ever, Holmes wasn't in there with some chump.

 

You should take out Marciano and put in Liston. Otherwise not a bad list.

 

It's always amazing to me the disrespect Marciano gets for no good reason. Marciano should never ever be rated below Liston on any list.

 

How is this "period." Foreman never fought a rematch with any fighter he lost to and Ali had his handsful with Norton and Fraizer in rematches. Lennox is the exception against Rahman and McCall, but then again he shouldn't have lost to them the first time. This is far from a cut and dry statement like you make it out to be.

 

You think Liston should be rated where Marciano is in that list? Liston maybe BARELY makes the bottom half of the top ten. No way he's ever above Marciano.

 

Agreed. It's the obsession with size that does it for some folks. Marciano was a light guy but he trained like an animal and threw monstrous punches for 15 rounds and had massive heart and fighting spirit. Liston was bigger but his heart wasn't great. Marciano was around the same height as Tyson who most people say would be a match for anyone in history yet the same idiots say Marciano would have been annihilated by any big heavy that ever lived. Ask Ali that question, he got in the ring with a 45 year old Marciano for that computer fight and was very impressed with the old guy. A 30 year old Marciano would give anyone hell, I've no doubt about that.

 

Sonny was a great fighter. He could hit hard with either hand, had probably the hardest jab of all time, had well rounded skills unlike most other big punchers, stamina was never a problem, and his chin was solid as well. He had a short title reign, but that's due to Patterson ducking him for a few years and when he finally became champ he had the misfortune to fight the man most consider number 1 all time who had the perfect style to beat him.

Liston cleaned out the division before he became champion. Folley, Machen, Big Cat Williams, Nino Valdes, Dejohn were all top fighters of the era who Liston defeated convincingly. Add to that the brutal way he won the title over a solid champion and you have one of the most fearsome and brutal Heavyweights ever. I rate him in the top 6-7 and used to rate him in the top 4 of all time.

By the way, I rate Marciano above him but Liston was a great fighter.

 

Wouldn't dispute any of that. Sonny was a great fighter absolutely, but Rocky was greater.